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Zec Martin Valin


Padragon800
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I don't know canadian politics works but is there not an elected official that rides a snowmobile.  It just seems so strange that they can drop this on snowmobile riders mid season with no notice.  

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33 minutes ago, Glenngo said:

Well, if this doesn't get fixed FAST by the FCMQ, this will be the last year I buy their annual pass.

FCMQ has no real control over this fee but may get involved only because of where this could lead. At this point it is only in one small area of Quebec so punishing the FCMQ will only hurt you and the Zec Martin Valin won't even know you are upset. Unless you are going to quit sledding in Quebec, you'd end up spending more on a couple of 7 day permits than an early annual.

I wonder what will happen to riders that just don't stop for the Zec Gustapo?? Sounds to me like they are similar to your local bylaw officer.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Shore1066 said:

It just seems so strange that they can drop this on snowmobile riders mid season with no notice.  

It was announced in the fall

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1 hour ago, iceman said:

It was announced in the fall

I didn't know that.  I'm not being difficult I just never heard Anything about it. It really does scare me about the future of trail riding in quebec.  I do think before this is over the business people will get involved.  I hope. 

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Three of us were going to do a 10-day Loop through that area this winter. We may now move to the south of the Sageunay River and travel to 383 to the 3 and up to Baie Comeau. It is not a matter of being cheap it is a matter of principle.  I also believe this will be felt by the two businesses that are very much frequented by snowmobilers in the region Kilometer 31 and the Chapel. These two businesses need to Rally their local politicians to get this dealt with very quickly. This could also affect permit sales for the local Club.

The real problem is the Zec has nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

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I hate keeping posts about this problem IMO but I have been reading a lot about this organization.  It was created in 1978 by the government of Canada or maybe Quebec to watch over the hunting and fishing areas.  They were created to be non profit.  So what I believe is the best way to approach  this matter is through getting political people involved.  Simply let the politicians know that people are not happy.  I'm sure they are the same as in the states that every vote counts.  I know I from the states but my money counts. May be a large amount of signatures.  Only an idea. May take a year to get results. 

 

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34 minutes ago, 800steve said:

Hope they can put a stop to this. If this sticks, whats to stop every landowner from charging a fee to cross there land?

Absolutely nothing however that is not likely to happen as most landowners realize the trails are put in by not for profit volunteer clubs. The other Zecs would likely get on board first I would think. Personally I think the best way to fight this is just stay away from Zec Martin Valin. The managing group won't want to pay for fee collectors if the money coming in is less than the cost of collecting it. It will hurt the businesses in the Zec during that period.

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I just went through creating an account with the ZEC.  Website is a bit clunky, but doable.  Then I registered for the day that our group of six will travel through the ZEC.  It was not expensive for one day, one sled.  For a little over $10 USD it wasn’t worth the potential hassle if we were pulled over.  Do I agree? - by no means. Do I wonder/worry if other ZECs will follow suit? - absolutely.  I think about fellow riders that spend their winters riding in that area. That somewhat insignificant $10/day fee starts to add up.  Business starts a downturn as riders avoid the ZEC and their fees.  Hopefully businesses, the FCMQ and the government can work together with the ZEC for an agreeable solution and avoid the possibility of other ZECs doing the same.

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This is unfortunate.  I feel the Zez is operating outside the spirit its creators intended. 

Below I read through section 3

and then section 19.

What is interesting about section 19  is the exception about paying.

When reviewing these sections,  you may very well need to register but.. if you are traveling to a Private property solely to reach and come back from there then you shouldn't be subjected to the the fee.

Example:  A persons enters the Zez solely to reach K31 or Chapel and then come back from there.

The law clearly states "(2.1)  a person who travels in a ZEC solely to reach a principal residence or private property and come back from there, if there is no other practicable road possible;"   

 

On another note, it will be interesting to see how the Minister deals with this.

  • The Club/Federation has been granted a "right of way" for the establishment of the trail
  • If you are operating within the "right of way"   (on the groomed maintained trail),  you shouldn't be subjected to any additional fee's other than what is required by law to operate in said "Right of way".  
  • The Trail pass grants Legal access for use of the trails within the right of way.

 

The Zec indeed has its own rules, but those rules may very well only apply passage outside the easment/right off way the Club/federation has aquired. 

 

It would be interesting to read the language used in the agreement between the Zec and the club.. 

 

 

 

 

https://www.legisquebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/document/cr/C-61.1, r. 78 /

DIVISION II

REGISTRATION AND ASSIGNMENT

3. An agency may, by by-law, determine the cases where a person who, for recreational purposes, enters or stays in a ZEC under its management or engages in any other activity therein, shall be required to register.

Such person must comply with the following registration procedure:

(1)  identify himself or herself with the person’s name and address, an identification number and, where applicable, the number of the person’s hunting or fishing licence;

(2)  specify a date and a single location or, as the case may be, a single sector in which the person will be hunting or fishing, for each day of hunting or fishing;

(3)  specify a date and a location or, as the case may be, a sector where the person will carry on a recreational activity that is part of a recreational activity development plan, for each day the activity will be carried on;

(4)  place proof of registration on the dashboard of the person’s vehicle so that it may be read from the outside or carry and produce it upon request from a wildlife protection officer, a wildlife protection assistant or an area warden; the duly completed registration is to be deposited at the reception centre on leaving the controlled zone; and

(5)  pay the fees payable.

Subject to the fourth paragraph, a person may have the choice of location or sector for hunting, fishing or a recreational activity referred to in subparagraph 3 of the second paragraph modified by a registration officer by paying the difference if the person requests to be transferred to a location or sector for which the fees are higher. If there are no additional fees to be paid, the person may also have it done by a wildlife protection officer, a wildlife protection assistant or an area warden if they are able to immediately notify the registration officer. This paragraph does not apply to a person who hunts in a limited access sector.

If places are available and subject to the payment of fees, a person may also have a registration officer modify the choice of fishing location or sector in the following cases:

(1)  to replace a non-limited access sector by a limited access sector or a body of water referred to in section 17.1;

(2)  to replace a limited access sector or such a body of water by another limited access sector or another such body of water; and

(3)  to replace a limited access sector or such a body of water by a non-limited access sector.

O.C. 1255-99, s. 3; O.C. 485-2004, s. 2; O.C. 64-2012, s. 2; O.C. 751-2014, s. 2; S.Q. 2021, c. 24, s. 118.

 

Section 19.

 

19. No person may use a vehicle to travel in a ZEC unless he has paid the travel fees set by by-law of the agency, which shall not exceed, subject to section 22,

(1)  (a)  $11.70 if the person is travelling alone, whether or not the person is bringing in additional vehicles;

(b)  $11.70 for all persons, if the person is travelling with other persons but is not bringing in additional vehicles;

(c)  $11.70 per person, if the person is travelling with other persons and bringing in additional vehicles or, where applicable, $11.70 per vehicle, if the number of vehicles including the main vehicle is less than the number of persons travelling; and

(2)  when entering or leaving the ZEC between 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. from 16 April to 14 September, or between 9:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. from 15 September to 15 April, an additional amount of $4.68 may be charged to the driver of the main vehicle.

The first paragraph does not apply to

(1)  a person travelling in a ZEC in the performance of his duties;

(2)  a person who travels in a ZEC solely to reach a private property located in the territory of the ZEC but not forming part of the ZEC;

(2.1)  a person who travels in a ZEC solely to reach a principal residence or private property and come back from there, if there is no other practicable road possible;

(3)  a person whose travel fees have been paid, in accordance with section 106.2 of the Act respecting the conservation and development of wildlife (chapter C-61.1), by an outfitter, an agency or a recreational association;

(4)  a person who just travels through a ZEC, and for whom the corresponding travel fees are paid to the agency by another person, an association or a group;

(5)  a person who travels in a ZEC to reach lands in the domain of the State on which exclusive trapping rights only are granted, in a wildlife reserve, in another controlled zone or to reach a beaver reserve for the purpose of carrying out activities related to trapping, and to come back from there; and

(6)  a lessee of exclusive trapping rights, a professional trapping licence holder or a person referred to in sections 5 to 7 of the Regulation respecting trapping activities and the fur trade (chapter C-61.1, r. 3) authorized by the lessee to trap, who travels in a ZEC for the purpose of carrying out activities related to trapping.

O.C. 1255-99, s. 19; O.C. 1093-2002, s. 3; O.C. 485-2004, s. 8; O.C. 450-2008, s. 1; O.C. 382-2010, s. 2; O.C. 64-2012, s. 5.

 

https://www.legisquebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/document/cs/V-1.3?&target=

 

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On 1/24/2023 at 1:58 PM, poltodoo said:

Seems like the Zec's need to erect toll booths and man them!!!! Sorry put a human at them.

Nice catch on the gender bender.

But are we still allowed to say erect?

That reminds me, and kinda still on topic of deeeelish groomed trails... A favorite quote from one of the 50+ buddies I've dragged up to become at least part-time Québec sledheads over the past 24 years:

"DUDE! IF I KNEW IT WAS GONNA BE THIS GOOD, I WOULD'VE WORN A CONDOM!"

 

 

image007.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi NHsrx701.  "...principal residence or private property..." sounds good but I think that is referring to a private home.  The argument from the Zec for this would be the Chapel and Auberge 31 are not a principal residence.  They maybe private property as opposed to public land but to me it sounds like the quote is referring to someone's home, residence, cabin, etc.

Jack & Sandi

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55 minutes ago, Padragon800 said:

Just updating this have never received a ticket or a fine in the mail yet since I got stopped there in mid January

So when you left the encounter with the ZEC agent, they gave you no paperwork? Just took all your info and you were given nothing? Business Card for ZEC? At least the person name who stopped you. 
 

Very interesting. 
 

not your fault by any means 

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12 minutes ago, iceman said:

So when you left the encounter with the ZEC agent, they gave you no paperwork? Just took all your info and you were given nothing? Business Card for ZEC? At least the person name who stopped you. 
 

Very interesting. 
 

not your fault by any means 

Nope nothing just took the info from mine and my fathers drivers license. 

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On 1/30/2023 at 10:19 AM, NHsrx701 said:

This is unfortunate.  I feel the Zez is operating outside the spirit its creators intended. 

Below I read through section 3

and then section 19.

What is interesting about section 19  is the exception about paying.

When reviewing these sections,  you may very well need to register but.. if you are traveling to a Private property solely to reach and come back from there then you shouldn't be subjected to the the fee.

Example:  A persons enters the Zez solely to reach K31 or Chapel and then come back from there.

The law clearly states "(2.1)  a person who travels in a ZEC solely to reach a principal residence or private property and come back from there, if there is no other practicable road possible;"   

 

On another note, it will be interesting to see how the Minister deals with this.

  • The Club/Federation has been granted a "right of way" for the establishment of the trail
  • If you are operating within the "right of way"   (on the groomed maintained trail),  you shouldn't be subjected to any additional fee's other than what is required by law to operate in said "Right of way".  
  • The Trail pass grants Legal access for use of the trails within the right of way.

 

The Zec indeed has its own rules, but those rules may very well only apply passage outside the easment/right off way the Club/federation has aquired. 

 

It would be interesting to read the language used in the agreement between the Zec and the club.. 

 

 

 

 

https://www.legisquebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/document/cr/C-61.1, r. 78 /

DIVISION II

REGISTRATION AND ASSIGNMENT

3. An agency may, by by-law, determine the cases where a person who, for recreational purposes, enters or stays in a ZEC under its management or engages in any other activity therein, shall be required to register.

Such person must comply with the following registration procedure:

(1)  identify himself or herself with the person’s name and address, an identification number and, where applicable, the number of the person’s hunting or fishing licence;

(2)  specify a date and a single location or, as the case may be, a single sector in which the person will be hunting or fishing, for each day of hunting or fishing;

(3)  specify a date and a location or, as the case may be, a sector where the person will carry on a recreational activity that is part of a recreational activity development plan, for each day the activity will be carried on;

(4)  place proof of registration on the dashboard of the person’s vehicle so that it may be read from the outside or carry and produce it upon request from a wildlife protection officer, a wildlife protection assistant or an area warden; the duly completed registration is to be deposited at the reception centre on leaving the controlled zone; and

(5)  pay the fees payable.

Subject to the fourth paragraph, a person may have the choice of location or sector for hunting, fishing or a recreational activity referred to in subparagraph 3 of the second paragraph modified by a registration officer by paying the difference if the person requests to be transferred to a location or sector for which the fees are higher. If there are no additional fees to be paid, the person may also have it done by a wildlife protection officer, a wildlife protection assistant or an area warden if they are able to immediately notify the registration officer. This paragraph does not apply to a person who hunts in a limited access sector.

If places are available and subject to the payment of fees, a person may also have a registration officer modify the choice of fishing location or sector in the following cases:

(1)  to replace a non-limited access sector by a limited access sector or a body of water referred to in section 17.1;

(2)  to replace a limited access sector or such a body of water by another limited access sector or another such body of water; and

(3)  to replace a limited access sector or such a body of water by a non-limited access sector.

O.C. 1255-99, s. 3; O.C. 485-2004, s. 2; O.C. 64-2012, s. 2; O.C. 751-2014, s. 2; S.Q. 2021, c. 24, s. 118.

 

Section 19.

 

19. No person may use a vehicle to travel in a ZEC unless he has paid the travel fees set by by-law of the agency, which shall not exceed, subject to section 22,

(1)  (a)  $11.70 if the person is travelling alone, whether or not the person is bringing in additional vehicles;

(b)  $11.70 for all persons, if the person is travelling with other persons but is not bringing in additional vehicles;

(c)  $11.70 per person, if the person is travelling with other persons and bringing in additional vehicles or, where applicable, $11.70 per vehicle, if the number of vehicles including the main vehicle is less than the number of persons travelling; and

(2)  when entering or leaving the ZEC between 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. from 16 April to 14 September, or between 9:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. from 15 September to 15 April, an additional amount of $4.68 may be charged to the driver of the main vehicle.

The first paragraph does not apply to

(1)  a person travelling in a ZEC in the performance of his duties;

(2)  a person who travels in a ZEC solely to reach a private property located in the territory of the ZEC but not forming part of the ZEC;

(2.1)  a person who travels in a ZEC solely to reach a principal residence or private property and come back from there, if there is no other practicable road possible;

(3)  a person whose travel fees have been paid, in accordance with section 106.2 of the Act respecting the conservation and development of wildlife (chapter C-61.1), by an outfitter, an agency or a recreational association;

(4)  a person who just travels through a ZEC, and for whom the corresponding travel fees are paid to the agency by another person, an association or a group;

(5)  a person who travels in a ZEC to reach lands in the domain of the State on which exclusive trapping rights only are granted, in a wildlife reserve, in another controlled zone or to reach a beaver reserve for the purpose of carrying out activities related to trapping, and to come back from there; and

(6)  a lessee of exclusive trapping rights, a professional trapping licence holder or a person referred to in sections 5 to 7 of the Regulation respecting trapping activities and the fur trade (chapter C-61.1, r. 3) authorized by the lessee to trap, who travels in a ZEC for the purpose of carrying out activities related to trapping.

O.C. 1255-99, s. 19; O.C. 1093-2002, s. 3; O.C. 485-2004, s. 8; O.C. 450-2008, s. 1; O.C. 382-2010, s. 2; O.C. 64-2012, s. 5.

 

https://www.legisquebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/document/cs/V-1.3?&target=

 

So in court it appears the way it is written, if I'm just going to La Chapel for lunch and back and there is no other way I don't have to pay....so who ever said the original spirit of the Zec has been broken is 100 % correct....why have this public wilderness area with roads and trails throughout...if no one can use it....almost all recreational vacations require citizens to freely enter public , state, federal, or provential land...that ultimately is owned by the public and paid for by their tax dollars....the spirit of this has truly been broken when a very small group thinks they know best for the people.Soon they will control hours, speeds, where you can go, maybe outlaw 2 strokes, or off trail access, and on and on

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Interesting as from what I understand that for the Federal Quad trails through the Zecs in Quebec…..while it is necessary to sign in and then sign out they are not charged for passing through. 

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