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Has anyone had a fuel issue this year? We blew a doo up and the tech says it was bad gas that we bought. The only gas purchased was at Real Masse and the station next to the ski doo dealership in st. Michelle Des saints. Any help would great thanks guys

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ETHANOL!! I have to assume Canada is the same as the US and are using the 10% ethanol blend. Please correct me if I am wrong! ALL 2 strokes hate ethanol, it is just bad stuff. I blew one up after fueling at Manawan last year, 4 miles after we left the pump.

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ETHANOL!! I have to assume Canada is the same as the US and are using the 10% ethanol blend. Please correct me if I am wrong! ALL 2 strokes hate ethanol, it is just bad stuff. I blew one up after fueling at Manawan last year, 4 miles after we left the pump.

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

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All the dealers here in NY say that to run any two cycle motor without additive is crazy! I have a lot of two stroke small engines and three sleds. We buy STARTRON by the case and everytime we fill up we give it a shot of "blue Juice" even though it is clear. I understand that the lower counties of NY are using ethanol that is as high as 15%.

Use the additives. It is cheap insurance. I have seen, firsthand, what the water laden ethanol does to the top of pistons. I have a friend with a 2010 GSX 600 and he told I was nuts and full of it. Well, 683 brand new machine miles later, he burned a piston.

The Startron suspends the water that comes with the ethanol in solution and allows it to be burned without catastrophic results. There are no gaurantees, but it does help.

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Oh boy. I got involved in a huge debate/argument over this crap on the Totallyamaha website.

Ethanol gas is just downright evil stuff. As was stated, you have to run additive when you fuel up

or you risk the wrath of this stuff. It won't always harm your motors but it's hit or miss. This fuel

does not have a long shelf life and it draws moisture into itself. If the tank that it's stored in, either

at the pump or your gas tank, is vented into the atmosphere, then it will draw moisture into the tank.

This stuff is ruining the outboard motor industry. There is a huge class action lawsuit in the works

against the Federal Government stating that this stuff was forced on us without any long term testing.

I have seen some incredible sites inside of carbs and fuel systems of ATV's, PWC's, and sleds that

have come into my shop from this stuff. Melted floats, disintegrating fuel lines, etc.

I could stay on my soapbox over this stuff all day but I don't want to crash the site!

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Oh boy. I got involved in a huge debate/argument over this crap on the Totallyamaha website.

Ethanol gas is just downright evil stuff. As was stated, you have to run additive when you fuel up

or you risk the wrath of this stuff. It won't always harm your motors but it's hit or miss. This fuel

does not have a long shelf life and it draws moisture into itself. If the tank that it's stored in, either

at the pump or your gas tank, is vented into the atmosphere, then it will draw moisture into the tank.

This stuff is ruining the outboard motor industry. There is a huge class action lawsuit in the works

against the Federal Government stating that this stuff was forced on us without any long term testing.

I have seen some incredible sites inside of carbs and fuel systems of ATV's, PWC's, and sleds that

have come into my shop from this stuff. Melted floats, disintegrating fuel lines, etc.

I could stay on my soapbox over this stuff all day but I don't want to crash the site!

That burned piston was about 300 miles after my dealer held a bottle of startron in front of my face and told me to make sure that I use it every tank. I ignored him and I ruined a week long trip!

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Isn't the ethanol in the gas the same stuff that is in a bottle of dry gas? Maybe I just am assuming that, but we have been using dry gas or gas line antifreeze for years to try to eliminate water problems. :unsure:

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Isn't the ethanol in the gas the same stuff that is in a bottle of dry gas? Maybe I just am assuming that, but we have been using dry gas or gas line antifreeze for years to try to eliminate water problems. :unsure:

NO! The dry gas I use is isopropyl alcohol and is recomended for 2 strokes. Also ethanol should not cause melt downs in 4 strokes. It should only cause poor engine performance and should lower your fuel mileage. It is very bad for 2 strokes and as mentioned in an earlier post is destroying the 2 stroke marine industry.

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NO! The dry gas I use is isopropyl alcohol and is recomended for 2 strokes. Also ethanol should not cause melt downs in 4 strokes. It should only cause poor engine performance and should lower your fuel mileage. It is very bad for 2 strokes and as mentioned in an earlier post is destroying the 2 stroke marine industry.

It might not blow a 4 stroke up but it still can and will give you fuel line problems and and break down any rubber or plastic parts in the fuel system causing blocked or clogged fuel systems. Not a problem I want to have on day 1 of a 5 day trip! Startron for sure!!

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NO! The dry gas I use is isopropyl alcohol and is recomended for 2 strokes. Also ethanol should not cause melt downs in 4 strokes. It should only cause poor engine performance and should lower your fuel mileage. It is very bad for 2 strokes and as mentioned in an earlier post is destroying the 2 stroke marine industry.

You are 100% right. The dry gas you use in snowmobiles is isopropyl, or at least it's supposed to be. The other kind of dry gas that is out is methanol, not ethanol.

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Has anyone had a fuel issue this year? We blew a doo up and the tech says it was bad gas that we bought. The only gas purchased was at Real Masse and the station next to the ski doo dealership in st. Michelle Des saints. Any help would great thanks guys

When did this happen? I'm at Auberge Lac Taureau right now and saw a newer 800 doo being towed off the lake. Guy said he smoked it. I fueled up at the same gas station you mentioned next to the dealership and haven't had any problems...yet.

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Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Quebec's regular gas has ethanol. If a station sells an ethanol blend in Quebec, it is a separate pump and is clearly marked and they still sell old fashioned regular.

Maine has ethanol and I have had no problems. And I don't use additives.

Today's two stroke sled engines are maxed out for horsepower and I think that is the reason they don't last, the motors are just too stressed.

That why I like the so called Doo 500SS motor, about 15 less HP than other 600 engines, but seems to go 15,000 miles without problems. I've owned eight of them since 1999. Insanely dependable. Same with Cat's old 550 engines. Only about 80 HP, but go forever. Ditto the 700 engine in the Vipers.

Unfortunetely, fewer and fewer engines are designed for the high mileage trail rider. Most today are made for the lake racer's.

Thanks to the internet, though, it is easier to keep up on which engines and sleds will go the high miles and which won't.

Just put on 400 miles on the new 2011 MXZ Sport 600 carb. Bought it new with ES for $7,400. Can't wipe the smile off my face!

Mike

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Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Quebec's regular gas has ethanol. If a station sells an ethanol blend in Quebec, it is a separate pump and is clearly marked and they still sell old fashioned regular.

Maine has ethanol and I have had no problems. And I don't use additives.

Today's two stroke sled engines are maxed out for horsepower and I think that is the reason they don't last, the motors are just too stressed.

That why I like the so called Doo 500SS motor, about 15 less HP than other 600 engines, but seems to go 15,000 miles without problems. I've owned eight of them since 1999. Insanely dependable. Same with Cat's old 550 engines. Only about 80 HP, but go forever. Ditto the 700 engine in the Vipers.

Unfortunetely, fewer and fewer engines are designed for the high mileage trail rider. Most today are made for the lake racer's.

Thanks to the internet, though, it is easier to keep up on which engines and sleds will go the high miles and which won't.

Just put on 400 miles on the new 2011 MXZ Sport 600 carb. Bought it new with ES for $7,400. Can't wipe the smile off my face!

Mike

I not sure about the ethanol thing in Quebec, but I will agree about the engines. The old small displacement twins seemed to go forever, even the larger triples seemed to run a long time. Todays 6 , 7 & 800 twins are just maxed out completely stock. I have two 600's one with a fresh rebuild and 1 with almost 6000 miles on it I will see if I can sqeeze 1 more season out of it. Then i will move on to 4's.

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A part of me would like a four stroke. But I come home from Quebec I would need an oil change every trip home, and I'm often home only for five or so days before heading back up, thus I would be hauling the sled back to the dealer every trip for an oil change. Todays dealers just don't seem to have enough mechanics to keep up and don't offer fast service. I can trade my inexpensive two stroke in each year for peanuts, have a new warranty each year, and the dependability of a new sled. I've owned one four stroke and found that with high miles on a four stroke its still not worth much at the end of the season if it has high miles because there are so many others out there with low miles for sale. It took my dealer two years to sell my year old four stroke with about 7,000 miles.

mike

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When did this happen? I'm at Auberge Lac Taureau right now and saw a newer 800 doo being towed off the lake. Guy said he smoked it. I fueled up at the same gas station you mentioned next to the dealership and haven't had any problems...yet.

hey stupe this all went down a week before christmas..

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A part of me would like a four stroke. But I come home from Quebec I would need an oil change every trip home, and I'm often home only for five or so days before heading back up, thus I would be hauling the sled back to the dealer every trip for an oil change. Todays dealers just don't seem to have enough mechanics to keep up and don't offer fast service. I can trade my inexpensive two stroke in each year for peanuts, have a new warranty each year, and the dependability of a new sled. I've owned one four stroke and found that with high miles on a four stroke its still not worth much at the end of the season if it has high miles because there are so many others out there with low miles for sale. It took my dealer two years to sell my year old four stroke with about 7,000 miles.

mike

An oil change after every ride? That would mean you put 5000 miles on a trip! I can't speak for the Cats or Doo's, but the Yamaha is good for 5000 or so miles before a scheduled oil change. Trading

for a new warranty, if you can do it, is of course the best way. I used to do it every 2 years till I went to the Apex. I've had 2 since 2006 and see no new one in site, no need. Selling used ones

all depends on the dealer. The one I use sells out his used stock by the middle of Jan. and he gets some real high mile trades, over 10,000 miles. Well, this post is getting hijacked, so, back to

the ethanol topic.

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When did this happen? I'm at Auberge Lac Taureau right now and saw a newer 800 doo being towed off the lake. Guy said he smoked it. I fueled up at the same gas station you mentioned next to the dealership and haven't had any problems...yet.

I doubt that the gas that did it the new 800's are still having problems..

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Ever notice there are always more engine failures early in the season? #1 reason is lack of maintenance. Even those who are faithful about cleaning up and end-of-season, storage with stabilizer, etc. can have a problem. Why? Fuel these days goes bad in about 30 days. Stabilizer helps but is no guarantee. Did you know that stabilizer also has a shelf life? It too goes bad after about a year so make it a habit to check the date code or write a purchase date on it. New 2 strokes have little tolerance for lean mixtures and can experience them due to even small vanish/"gunk" forming in jets during the off-season. Some dealers will replace jets in sleds more than a couple of years old that look suspect for just this reason.

Another common failure is "flecks" of bearing plating coming off of roller bearings because of conditions during off season storage. These pieces find their way around the 2 stroke crankcase and ruin engines too.

It is hard to say why the engine failed because none of us saw it apart. It would also be interesting to know if others in the riding party got fuel at the same time? If others didn't have a failure, I would likely rule out the gas.

I am not saying ethanol is never at fault in engine failures of 2 strokes but there are usually other contributing factors when there is a failure. Ethanol is hygroscopic - meaning it attracts water. This can be more of a factor depending on the environment. Plastic tanks in snowmobiles are less of a problem than metal. Certain plastics and rubber(prior to about 2006) may be sensitive to gasoline with 10 or more percent ethanol. Ethanol is a powerful solvent and can cause dirt, gums, and other contaminants to enter the engine. Never add additional de-icer. This is because if you have a tank of 10% ethanol, adding more alcohol definitely will cause more problems with phase separation and octane rating.

And YES I was told that gasoline in Quebec generally has 10% ethanol.

Edited by vt_bluyamaha54
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thanks i did not know that quebec was putting ehanol in there gas

is this more of a prob for the 2 stroke's than the 4's ??

just found out today the uls they are putting in diesel fuel is recking o rings just a heads up when your truck starts leaking fuel its most likely o ring somewhere caused by shity uls fuel

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thanks i did not know that quebec was putting ehanol in there gas

is this more of a prob for the 2 stroke's than the 4's ??

just found out today the uls they are putting in diesel fuel is recking o rings just a heads up when your truck starts leaking fuel its most likely o ring somewhere caused by shity uls fuel

Ethanol can cause problems with 4's but it is really bad for 2's. As far as the ULSD for trucks the older trucks it can be bad for seals and other stuff and additives I am told are needed to prevent it.

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Ever notice there are always more engine failures early in the season? #1 reason is lack of maintenance. Even those who are faithful about cleaning up and end-of-season, storage with stabilizer, etc. can have a problem. Why? Fuel these days goes bad in about 30 days. Stabilizer helps but is no guarantee. Did you know that stabilizer also has a shelf life? It too goes bad after about a year so make it a habit to check the date code or write a purchase date on it. New 2 strokes have little tolerance for lean mixtures and can experience them due to even small vanish/"gunk" forming in jets during the off-season. Some dealers will replace jets in sleds more than a couple of years old that look suspect for just this reason.

Another common failure is "flecks" of bearing plating coming off of roller bearings because of conditions during off season storage. These pieces find their way around the 2 stroke crankcase and ruin engines too.

It is hard to say why the engine failed because none of us saw it apart. It would also be interesting to know if others in the riding party got fuel at the same time? If others didn't have a failure, I would likely rule out the gas.

I am not saying ethanol is never at fault in engine failures of 2 strokes but there are usually other contributing factors when there is a failure. Ethanol is hygroscopic - meaning it attracts water. This can be more of a factor depending on the environment. Plastic tanks in snowmobiles are less of a problem than metal. Certain plastics and rubber(prior to about 2006) may be sensitive to gasoline with 10 or more percent ethanol. Ethanol is a powerful solvent and can cause dirt, gums, and other contaminants to enter the engine. Never add additional de-icer. This is because if you have a tank of 10% ethanol, adding more alcohol definitely will cause more problems with phase separation and octane rating.

And YES I was told that gasoline in Quebec generally has 10% ethanol.

I agree with you for sure on the storage issue. For years we have been draining the tanks, running them dry then putting 1 or 2 gallons of aviation fuel in and restarting. Works well they start right up in fall and and you don't have to worry about the fuel going bad in the tank. I also wondered the same thing if anyone else that fueled up had a problem. If I was still running a 2 stroke I would definitely talk to my dealer about this, I think there must be a way to richen the fuel mixture up to protect against this or at least help. While I don't know the difference between ethanol and methanol I do know that they are both a form of alcohol and 2 strokes can be made to run on pure methanol/oil blend. I realize with the new technology in 2 strokes and the direct injection engines they might be alot more sensitive and may run alot leaner, I guess they have to with the fuel mileage they get and the low emissions. Good luck to you guys and I would definitely follow the advice of your dealer.

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I don't know about the others but polaris has a fuse you change for this. It changes the motor and oil usage. Not a big deal imo both are rmks have worked well no issue. We do prep well at the end of the season imo more important

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This will eliminate the problem.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aqs.aspx

Yes there are a lot of additives but nothing is as good as FRESH FUEL!!! Someone made the comment about a lot of early season troubles, at the end of the season you should do next seasons prep work, drain the fuel from the tank and carburetors if you have carburetors and leave them empty until next season 2 stoke or 4 stroke. Older sleds should have the fuel lines replaced with new ethanol approved fuel hose unless you have the clear plastic line you can see through. Floats and needle valves just do not like to sit in stagnant degrading fuel for 9 or 10 months!! Fuel injected sleds fair a little better but should have fuel treatment before storage and run the engine a while after putting it in. The best kept secret to all storage is to store it someplace that stays around the same temperature preferably cool,like a dark basement, but not damp, this makes a world of difference. If your sled is not prepped and sit in your trailer in the blazing sun and then cools at night these vented tanks and fuel systems will evaporate the fuel and the shit left behind in the float bowls will wash into the carburetor circuits on start up next season and narrow down the arteries and run the engine lean and hot and you will surely burn down. That is just the way it is with seasonal equipment from boats to lawn mowers and sleds and snow blowers. If you can afford a sled and a trip or two to Canada you can afford to stop at the dealer on the last trip home in the spring to prevent engine failure on next seasons first ride, and I bet this cost much less than pistons and cylinders. NOW SOMEBODY DO A SNOW DANCE SO WE CAN RIDE!!

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