is the trail network in jeopardy??

[Mid Range]

an article from le journal de Québec.........drop this into your translator. There is a lot of truth in that article.

http://www.journaldequebec.com/2017/09/28/le-reseau-de-sentiers-de-motoneige-en-danger?utm_medium=cxense&utm_source=journaldemontreal.com&utm_campaign=reco#cxrecs_s

[Sledwhore]

So, anyway we can help?

[iceman]

Julien Cabana
JULIEN CABANA
Thursday, 28 September 2017 05:00
UPDATE Thursday, 28 September 2017 05:00
The snowmobile world as it is currently known in Quebec may well change if new sources of funding are not found to help club volunteers. The network of trails that make Quebec famous in the snowmobile world may well change radically.
This is what happened at the Federation of Snowmobile Clubs convention held last weekend in Victoriaville.
As things stand, more than 50% of Quebec's snowmobile clubs are underfunded. The 4,500 volunteers who form the backbone of all snowmobiling activity in Quebec can no longer do the job with the financial resources currently available. Over the past few years, clubs have been increasingly challenged in terms of laws and regulations and the costs of replacing, maintaining and maintaining trail infrastructure.

For example, to replace a bridge or culvert in public land requires an engineer plan and many other requirements such as calculating water flow. All of these new measures have resulted in the cost of replacing or repairing infrastructure, which ranged from $ 5,000 to $ 20,000, to well over $ 100,000 today.
Moreover, once the infrastructure has been built at great expense by the clubs, they do not remain their property. They can be used by all other users of snowmobile trails year-round without their having contributed financially to the projects.
THE NETWORK AT RISK
If a solution to this lack of funding is not put in place, it will not be surprising to see the current network of more than 32,000 kilometers of trails change completely.
As the clubs lack funds, the network could be fragmented throughout Quebec. This would result in fewer kilometers of trails for winter travel. Interconnections between regions may also disappear. The closure of trails that serve businesses and entire regions that benefit from snowmobile traffic in winter would have very significant economic consequences.
The entire existing network is therefore at risk if the current financial assistance program is not enhanced.
It should be noted that for a season that lasts between 12 and 16 weeks, snowmobilers generate direct economic benefits of more than $ 1 billion throughout Quebec and an impact of more than $ 724 million on GDP.
UNIQUE IN THE WORLD
For many years, government officials have been boasting that the practice of snowmobiling in Quebec is a unique model in the world.
It is true that there are not many places in the world where winter activity generates direct and indirect spillovers of more than $ 3.7 billion. All this system is supported by an army of volunteers and financed almost exclusively by the principle of users / payers.
Club funding sources currently include the sale of access rights to trail users and financial assistance programs for trail maintenance and upgrading and for the purchase of surfers. Funds for the majority of programs accessible to clubs, through the Federation of Snowmobile Clubs of Quebec, come from a rebate on the number plates that the government collects each season. It has been $ 40 for several years. Meanwhile, the operating costs of the clubs are constantly increasing. If there is not soon a form of new financial aid, the colossus with the feet of clay may well tumble from its base.

[iceman]

Yup, 

sounds like the Government needs to pay up more money to these clubs. It Is the Government that benefits the most from all the Tax$$$$$ that snowmobile tourism brings to Quebec. Need to spend money to make money. 

Things are getting way too complicated for simple Sh*t, if they had all the expert engineers and freaking environmental studies back years ago we would still be riding in horse and buggy and living by candlelight. Enough with the overthinking of simple stuff. Clubs been building bridges for many moons. If it holds the Surfacer then good enough. No need to make it more complicated than it needs to be. Things are getting ridiculous. 

I have no doubt in the coming years we are in serious jeopardy of losing alot of interconnection between regions. 

 

[MrGutz]

They could increase the trail pass or stop offering the early buy-in. But they should ear mark the $$ for Volunteers and Grooming.

GutZ

[smclelan]

I agree with a shortage of funding for sure.  Some are saying we don't need the extra costs in bridges and culverts, here I disagree.  We need expertise in the infrastructure projects, this helps to ensure the bridges and culverts installed can handle the water flow from the drainage areas the water comes from.  There are way too many undersized installations in now that will washout in the future.  The new crossings are designed to handle the extra flow that our extreme weather seems to be a regular occurrences now.  We need to make sure trail dollar spent will with stand extreme weather and not fail.  Club volunteers have been doing a great job at this for years, however the demographic is changing and there are less volunteers and more hiring contractors to do these jobs, lets do them right the first time.

 

As for funding assistance:  I would like to see a snowmobile button on every cash register in the province, for any snowmobile related purchase whether it be: purchasing new or used sled, accessories, gas, lodging,......and so on.  From this take 3 or 4% off the provincial tax and direct it to the FCMQ for funding infrastructure or trail projects and equipment. 

 

My $0.02 worth. 

[grumpysanta]

good idea  smc.

 

[MrGutz]

2 hours ago, smclelan said:

I agree with a shortage of funding for sure.  Some are saying we don't need the extra costs in bridges and culverts, here I disagree.  We need expertise in the infrastructure projects, this helps to ensure the bridges and culverts installed can handle the water flow from the drainage areas the water comes from.  There are way too many undersized installations in now that will washout in the future.  The new crossings are designed to handle the extra flow that our extreme weather seems to be a regular occurrences now.  We need to make sure trail dollar spent will with stand extreme weather and not fail.  Club volunteers have been doing a great job at this for years, however the demographic is changing and there are less volunteers and more hiring contractors to do these jobs, lets do them right the first time.

 

As for funding assistance:  I would like to see a snowmobile button on every cash register in the province, for any snowmobile related purchase whether it be: purchasing new or used sled, accessories, gas, lodging,......and so on.  From this take 3 or 4% off the provincial tax and direct it to the FCMQ for funding infrastructure or trail projects and equipment. 

 

My $0.02 worth. 

This SnoMoButton would also give a business(es) and province a truer view of the financial impact from snowmobiling.

GutZ

 

[PLAYHARD]

I'm all for doing stuff right the first time, but I see this falling somewhere between over-regulation and good old fashioned corruption:

"Over the past few years, clubs have been increasingly challenged in terms of laws and regulations and...All of these new measures have resulted in the cost of replacing or repairing infrastructure, which ranged from $5,000 to $ 20,000, to well over $ 100,000 today."

"Égoutter le marais"

[wulsock1]

Maybe the sled companies should step in. They are the ones that will suffer financially. Of course we as sled buyers would also because they will just add it to the price. But I would think Ski Doo would be all over this.

[Pipeman]

I don't have a good answer, I just know that every time the government gets involved (here in the USA) progress is slowed to a snails pace , the cost is insane and as usual there is no tracking of where all the money goes or any accountability. I doubt it is much different in Canada. First thing I would like to see is where all the money ends up from the trail passes and other money collected throughout the season. One thing I have learned ( and I am not very bright) is throwing money at a problem is not always the answer....Look at Chicago for instance.

[timbo]

14 hours ago, PLAYHARD said:

I'm all for doing stuff right the first time, but I see this falling somewhere between over-regulation and good old fashioned corruption:

"Over the past few years, clubs have been increasingly challenged in terms of laws and regulations and...All of these new measures have resulted in the cost of replacing or repairing infrastructure, which ranged from $5,000 to $ 20,000, to well over $ 100,000 today."

"Égoutter le marais"

10-4, Playhard! 

And while you are at it you might want to think about draining the marsh! :-)

[Trailblazer]

On 2017-10-02 at 0:11 PM, smclelan said:

I agree with a shortage of funding for sure.  Some are saying we don't need the extra costs in bridges and culverts, here I disagree.  We need expertise in the infrastructure projects, this helps to ensure the bridges and culverts installed can handle the water flow from the drainage areas the water comes from.  There are way too many undersized installations in now that will washout in the future.  The new crossings are designed to handle the extra flow that our extreme weather seems to be a regular occurrences now.  We need to make sure trail dollar spent will with stand extreme weather and not fail.  Club volunteers have been doing a great job at this for years, however the demographic is changing and there are less volunteers and more hiring contractors to do these jobs, lets do them right the first time.

 

As for funding assistance:  I would like to see a snowmobile button on every cash register in the province, for any snowmobile related purchase whether it be: purchasing new or used sled, accessories, gas, lodging,......and so on.  From this take 3 or 4% off the provincial tax and direct it to the FCMQ for funding infrastructure or trail projects and equipment. 

 

My $0.02 worth. 

Shhh....not so loud SM they made add that 3-4% to the already existing tax.

[Mid Range]

another great article about how well the world of snowmobile is doing in Québec.

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2017/10/14/le-gouvernement-menace-la-survie-de-plusieurs-clubs

[actionjack]

Hard to believe they would put so much of the winter economy in such peril.  This would be disastrous for an entire industry and so many families. 

[Trailblazer]

If the Ministry of Forestry, Wildlife and Parks (MFFP) applies its intention to amend the multi-purpose road surfacing permits on public lands, there may be several snowmobile trails disappearing.
In some cases clubs should even cease operations. "I think if we leave things as they are with the intentions of the MFFP, we could see the end of snowmobile clubs as we know them today," says Harold Michaud of the Manicouagan Snowmobile Association Inc., Baie-Comeau area. They want 1-2-3-4-5 forest roads to be freely accessible to all users who want to use them in winter. They tell us that we can go and surf some of these roads, but that it will be prohibited to charge fees such as the membership card we currently have. We have already told the authorities that we can not do such a thing. Their answer was that if we were not happy, we had only to clear the forest and build paths in parallel. This is physically and financially impossible for clubs. "
In effect, the Department intends to apply section 42 of the Public Forest Management Act which states that if the road has no fence, the paying user principle does not apply.

Agreements with MNR
Previously, the Forest Roads Permit file was managed by the Department of Natural Resources (MNR).

"We had rights of way with MNR in the past, which made it legal to operate our clubs, as has always been the case," says Michaud. It was when the file was transferred to the MFFP that things got complicated. After underfunding, the government itself threatens all snowmobiling activity. We have to ask ourselves because, according to the figures published, the practice of snowmobiling is a very important industry for the regions of Quebec. In many cases, it is a matter of winter survival for several stakeholders. "
The Act respecting off-highway vehicles, in section 72-3, is very specific about what must happen on a snowmobile trail: "Except in the case of an accident or emergency, road vehicle that the snowmobile and its sled can not use a snowmobile trail, except to cross it as directly as possible. In this case, he must cross this trail so as not to be the cause of an accident or an obstacle to the normal use of the trail by a snowmobile. "
For a trail to be recognized as such, the law is very strict, the club must have a right of way signed in due form. As the MFFP does not want to give, there will be no trail.
Clubs in Danger
This new way of doing the MFFP, if applied to the letter, as several officials encountered by the clubs seem to explain, would mean the end of activities for several clubs.
"I take the example of the Chapais Club, which, if this measure applies, would have no more kilometers of footpaths to surface. He would have no choice but to stop his activities, said Michaud. For many clubs, the majority of their trails are on public lands, which would mean that their territory would be amputated by several kilometers of trails. So would it be worthwhile for them to continue their activities for a few kilometers of still available trails? Personally, knowing very well what the operating expenses of a snowmobile club are, without the income from the sale of the mandatory membership card when there is an official trail, many would simply close their doors. "

[iceman]

I saw that too JG, we need to hope this don’t happen. Too much Government bullshit, plain and simple. 

That MFFP is in bed with the tree huggers and this is bad news for us. 

[MrGutz]

18 hours ago, iceman said:

Too much Government bullshit, plain and simple. 

That MFFP is in bed with the tree huggers and this is bad news for us. 

X2

GutZ

[Pipeman]

not good.....

[NHTOM]

Unreal. Every year the govt seems to screw up something regarding snowmobiling. Not giving farmers what they promised, then farmers hold sled trails hostage.

Now some govt agency wants us off the forest roads?? No greenys are going to do anything with those roads when theres 4 feet of snow on them. Dont they know that? Plus if nobody registers a sled then no money for the govt either.  Morons.

[Trailblazer]

22 hours ago, iceman said:

I saw that too JG, we need to hope this don’t happen. Too much Government bullshit, plain and simple. 

That MFFP is in bed with the tree huggers and this is bad news for us. 

They are the tree huggers

[iceman]

3 hours ago, Trailblazer said:

They are the tree huggers

Yes indeed.

This can be a serious problem. 

Edited October 17, 2017 by iceman

[hparaptor]

Time to look for another hobby.  

Thus sucks

[smclelan]

It is not time to look for another hobby, it is time to fight for the one we love.  Write a letter to a politician and tell them you look forward to coming to Quebec every winter and spend huge amounts of money.  Changing snowmobiling as we know it could make you consider other places to vacation.

 

Don't let the tree huggers win....FIGHT THEM!!

[Shore1066]

Writing to a politician is a great idea and I would do that. If someone could post names to write to would help the American riders. We have the same problem here in the Adirondacks and this is the reason I love Quebec so much plus the trails are the best. I just don't want to write a letter and have it sit on the wrong desk.

Only my thoughts. Possibly write a letter with all the American Quebec Riders signatures on it. Strength in numbers.