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Saddlebag Trip Planning?


Goose713
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Hello!

This is my first time posting, but I have been reading these forums for a while!  I love the information that I have found on here as well as following the snow reports!  I have been riding in Quebec twice now.  This year my crew (brothers and nephews) are trying to come up a few times.  Last year we did a small saddle bag trip that I planned.  It worked out ok, but I was looking for input from the experienced saddlebaggers.  How do you plan your trips?  Do you pre-book hotels or just play it by ear?  I ask this because last year on our way between hotels we got stuck in freezing rain.  It was so bad that it was freezing to helmets and jackets on contact.  We had to go very slow for visibility and stop every few minutes to scrape!  Because of the weather it took us a lot longer to get to the hotel we had booked.  What do you do about the unknowns such as weather and trail conditions if you have to make a stretch between two points? 

On another related note...are there trails or areas that you recommend for a roughly 3 day loop?

Thanks for the input!

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You were there in early March I think. Anyway what part of quebec are you going? We usually start calling in the afternoon the hotels we are heading for. We get the info and phone numbers the night before. Most times it's when we stop for gas or a bite to eat. We really haven't had a problem getting rooms. Unless you target small towns then you should call ahead. The FMCQ web site has a trail system map and it is great because you can find distance between towns and lodging places with contact numbers. Lots of three days rides. Just pick a good starting spot. Ask the locals about the weather. They seem to know the best. Western Quebec has lots of rooms. The 93 trail going north would have the fewest rooms but I don't think it get's the traffic like around central Quebec and more east. What amazing is you only see a few sleds on the trail and when you get to the big hotels there is so many sleds there for the night. As for freezing rain check the long range forcast and think about getting heated shields. On the FMCQ trail map section there is a link telling you when and where the trails were groomed daily.Now the big part is be safe and enjoy. Oh one more thing. Also on the FMCQ web site is a app, iMotoneige1, that you can load on your phone that is a trail map with  GPS. Works great for us. It just shows you where you are and what trail you are on. It's very cheap.  Again be safe and have a great adventure.

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I can speak to this a little since I do the planning for my group.

The short answer really is it just depends. It depends on the day of the week, the part of the season, if there is snow everywhere or almost no where else etc. etc etc.  So for me its now pretty much a mix of booking and winging-it

I’ve been planning trips snowmobiling for groups as many as 14 since 1999. The trips are usually a set range of days since, often, people are flying up to meet us. We finally started going to Quebec annually, after we kept planning trips to places that wound up not having snow for our dates.  After 2 years we graduated from base camp (or hotel) riding with overnights to full back pack trips.  We lost guys from the group who don't enjoy the packing and unpacking.  And we learned to pack lighter and especially more securely.

I used to plan my trips in pretty deep detail including thinking about gas, food, and points of interest along the way.  Everyone on the trip knows we may do the plan 100% or ZERO or anywhere in between.  We go where there's snow (we hope).  Now I am comfortable with a plan framework and 80%+ winging-it.

For weekend destinations in busy places you need reservations.  Hopefully those have cancellation policies that help or understanding management when something goes wrong. 2 years ago I had to cancel Rebaska on a Friday and boy was she pissed - deservedly so but shit happens (not sure I'm allowed back yet although I did give 24 hrs notice). When you are going to remote places during the week you're probably OK to wing it.  If you're heading anywhere on a weekend. it is best to have some reservation and some understanding of the penalty for not making the stop.  In any year, at any time, the best plan can go south and you may be a in small town with people offering their stable to your group - un gros merci La Maison Bleu.  This couple opened their home (an advertised B&B on the back of a local map) to us at 1am. Woke up to let us in, fed us, opened wine, and made us a huge breakfast a few hours later while letting us use his tools in their barn to tinker on the troublesome sled.

One year we went to the Four Points in QC and the place was empty.  The next year we arrived on a Monday without reservations and the place was 100% booked due to a convention. The first timers were not happy about 20 more miles on top of the 250 so far but they sure wanted a bed.  The next season I took the family to QC and I couldn't find the place in Lac Beauport because they tore it down to build condos. Le Manior St Castin (I think). Built 1937 ---. 

During your trip, gauge your day in the am and call ahead before you hit the trail.  Then check in at lunch to make sure your plan is holding together.  Be careful of hockey tournaments.  Head into a town with a big tournament going on without a reservation and you might be sleeping in the bus terminal

Came close to spending the night in a trail side hunting shack the year we got stuck in the rain storm but made it to La Tuque and spent the next day at the launderette.  Luckily, I have never found myself in freezing rain in Quebec but would soldier on (like you did) or if not possible, make an alternate plan. When you have a reservation you can't cancel,  you solve your problem (band-aid repair or tow the sled), call ahead if possible and arrive late.  See if that town offers late night food ordering from somewhere.  During your trip, gauge your day in the am and call ahead before you hit the trail. Chances are good the person waiting for you will place your food order and have it waiting for you when you get there.  We towed a sled with a popped coolant crossover tube 25 miles last year to keep a Saturday night reservation in St. Jovite.  That is snowmobiling. 

 

For a 3 day loop the 23-73 loop from St Raymond or Shawinigan up to Jonquiere and back is hard to beat, but there are plenty of great options in multiple regions of Quebec depending on where the snow is when you are going.

 

 

Edited by actionjack
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Thanks for the tips so far!

We were actually there in mid January last year when we hit the freezing rain.  It was brutal and heated shields weren't working either!  It was in the St Michel des Saintes area headed east.  I feel like without that we would have made our destination several hours earlier.  Because of that rain I am looking into other approaches.  I definitely had some party members who found that daunting and therefore thought we should plan less distance between nights.  All in all last year was about 200miles a day.  I thought it was fine, but I guess some of us are getting old..haha.  Thats the other thing about planning these trips....Sometimes the trails are tight and twisty causing the miles to go by slowly and sometimes they are like highways and you could be there by lunch!  I guess I have to ride more of them to know which is which!  The FCMQ map and app were a great resource, but you still don't know till you go! 

I am hoping to make it up 2-3 times this year.  Once will be staying in Quebec city and doing mostly day rides.  Any great places to see or go from there?  A second time will be the backpack trip.  I will look into the loop that actionjack recommended.  Is it worth it to venture up to the Mt Valin area while up that way?  I think we would like to avoid the busy St. Zenon/St. Michel area.  Should we be looking at Mt Laurier area?  or Stay to the east?  Some of my guys are all about the ride, some like to see beautiful scenery, and some would like to sit in the spa or a bar afterword!  That's one of the challenges I face.  So it needs to be well rounded.   Thanks for all the input so far!

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Heated shields are only to prevent fogging from your breathing, they are not designed to defrost the outside. It does not get nearly warm enough for this it’s not gonna work. Freezing rain sucks period, not much you can do. Go until you need to scrape visor then stop and repeat as often as necessary. Put your hand warmers on max and put your glove to your shield when you stop to aid in removal of ice on shield. 

3 days you could go to Saguenay from St Raymond or Shawinigan. Then either do the tour du Lac St. Jean(all the way around) or go up to Mont Valin for one day. For sure. 

Most importat is to be flexible and understand its an adventure much more than a vacation. So things are gonna happen and you need to improvise and overcome. 

 

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If you want big mile rides go to the west. Temisqaming and North. There are more flat and straighter trails there. If you cross the border at the Thousand Islands then 4 hours up to Swisha (Rapids Des Joachimes) there is a great outfitter to stay and leave from. Very nice guy with good safe place to leave your truck. Dumoin Valley Guides. Name is Eithan. From there it's pretty nice! And like Iceman said it is an ADVENTURE! Ive been going there for a long time and don't think one single trip went exactly as planned!! But ALL of them were second to none!

Edited by wulsock1
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From Quebec City

Ice hotel?? east not sure if they made the trail yet to new location of ice hotel

Manior Richelieu west up river 

Auberge du Ravage 

L''Etape loop 3-23-369.  23 is a highway ride 369 is a coaster ride.  3 will be crowed on weekends

 

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Welcome aboard Goose. We have been saddlebagging for years and we always book ahead. Way ahead if we plan to stay in a popular destination and on weekends. One thing for sure, we never leave to our destination in the morning without our rooms booked so we book the night before or a few days ahead. No stress. 

As for the weather...our favorite channel at night is the weather network. Unfortunately we have no control on the weather and trail conditions. 

As a 3 day loop, if you are looking for wilderness, remote areas and not much traffic I would suggest you:

Maniwaki-Val d'Or

Val d'Or-Parent

Parent-Maniwaki

Lots of options....

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2 hours ago, Goose713 said:

Thanks for the tips so far!

We were actually there in mid January last year when we hit the freezing rain.  It was brutal and heated shields weren't working either!  It was in the St Michel des Saintes area headed east.  I feel like without that we would have made our destination several hours earlier.  Because of that rain I am looking into other approaches.  I definitely had some party members who found that daunting and therefore thought we should plan less distance between nights.  All in all last year was about 200miles a day.  I thought it was fine, but I guess some of us are getting old..haha.  Thats the other thing about planning these trips....Sometimes the trails are tight and twisty causing the miles to go by slowly and sometimes they are like highways and you could be there by lunch!  I guess I have to ride more of them to know which is which!  The FCMQ map and app were a great resource, but you still don't know till you go! 

I am hoping to make it up 2-3 times this year.  Once will be staying in Quebec city and doing mostly day rides.  Any great places to see or go from there?  A second time will be the backpack trip.  I will look into the loop that actionjack recommended.  Is it worth it to venture up to the Mt Valin area while up that way?  I think we would like to avoid the busy St. Zenon/St. Michel area.  Should we be looking at Mt Laurier area?  or Stay to the east?  Some of my guys are all about the ride, some like to see beautiful scenery, and some would like to sit in the spa or a bar afterword!  That's one of the challenges I face.  So it needs to be well rounded.   Thanks for all the input so far!

Head north out of the city, Tour du Lac, a 2 day loop through Mont Valin, or up the TQ 3 to Tadassac, across the ferry, over to Jonquierre, back to Quebec City.

 

Long and short, get out of the high traffic areas.

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45,000 plus miles in quebec.

we typically plan on reservations for the weekends.

During the week we typically wing it....  this comes with time, experience, and knowledge of the accommodations at the destination.  

The beauty of quebec is gradually uncovering everything that's out there.  It's rare that your going to find a shit trail...it's nearly impossible to find a shit trail that doesn't have a pot of gold at the end...... Bumpy trail for 20 miles see broken groomer and then hit white carpet for the rest of the trip.

Through out the province you have lakes, mountains, super high ways, roller coaster rides etc....it's got it all.

Carry xtra gas and a tow strap.

Trackmaps in a Garmin GPS will give u all the features it does in your car but via snowmobile trail.....ETA, Lodging, Gas, etc it's really incredible how far things have come from a technological standpoint.

we typically check the live grooming map (exploria) in the AM and modify the route if need be.

 

 

 

i think a great post would be the top 5 worst areas in quebec.

 

i can only thing of one area we really avoid.....just a cunt hair north of Ottawa 

we come up 81 and wanted to save some seat time in the truck.... parked at the first place we found and the trails were just crazy twisty till we hit the rr bed that runs from Low to maniwaki.  Well worth the extra 90 min in the truck to get to the good stuff.  Lesson learned.

 

st zenon, st Michelle area gets a really bad rap but it's typically only on weekends.

same for Quebec City..... gets tough on the weekends.

as a general rule the more heavily populated areas have the highest probability to get a little beat up on the weekends

 

Best of Luck and Enjoy the Ride!

Always an Adventure

BJ

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1 hour ago, iceman said:

Heated shields are only to prevent fogging from your breathing, they are not designed to defrost the outside. It does not get nearly warm enough for this it’s not gonna work. Freezing rain sucks period, not much you can do. Go until you need to scrape visor then stop and repeat as often as necessary. Put your hand warmers on max and put your glove to your shield when you stop to aid in removal of ice on shield. 

3 days you could go to Saguenay from St Raymond or Shawinigan. Then either do the tour du Lac St. Jean(all the way around) or go up to Mont Valin for one day. For sure. 

Most importat is to be flexible and understand its an adventure much more than a vacation. So things are gonna happen and you need to improvise and overcome. 

 

ICE

last year we hit some sort of weather inversion on Valin...It was a craz mist rain that was sticking to my heated shield like no other.  Could only get a mile before using your trick time after time....

i finally catch up to my partner and catch an earful.  He couldn't understand what was going on cuz it wasn't happening to him at all.

the high windshield and his lack of height had him completely isolated from the shit.

never saw anything like it.

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 Yep,I will never understand why they don’t make a heated shield that will take care of the outside instead of just the inside “breath fog”.  I swear back in the late 90s my HJC had one but I could be nuts.

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If you are coming to the Saguenay this advise     " During the week we typically wing it"  .should not be used.  During the week the Delta Saguenay Hotel is most times full. its a 155  room hotel.  Weekends, except when a Hockey Tournment is scheduled, is generally the slow time.  

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33 minutes ago, Saguenay Bill said:

If you are coming to the Saguenay this advise     " During the week we typically wing it"  .should not be used.  During the week the Delta Saguenay Hotel is most times full. its a 155  room hotel.  Weekends, except when a Hockey Tournment is scheduled, is generally the slow time.  

My point was in that general area there are tons of options if the Delta is booked.  It's unlikely you will get shut out in the general area and sleep at a bus terminal with the exception of Hockey Tournament.

Based on my experience😳

 

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2 hours ago, Scranton1 said:

ICE

last year we hit some sort of weather inversion on Valin...It was a craz mist rain that was sticking to my heated shield like no other.  Could only get a mile before using your trick time after time....

i finally catch up to my partner and catch an earful.  He couldn't understand what was going on cuz it wasn't happening to him at all.

the high windshield and his lack of height had him completely isolated from the shit.

never saw anything like it.

Another tip that I use and bring along with me on every trip is Turtle Wax, give your visor a healthy coat of wax in the morning and you’ll never have to worry about anything sticking to it, be it snow balls from the sled in front of you or the oncoming one to rain and yes freezing rain. A heated visor like Ice said WILL NOT thaw freezing rain, it’s made to remove moisture from your breath.

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15 hours ago, Goose713 said:

I think we would like to avoid the busy St. Zenon/St. Michel area. 

Super smart! Gas-n-go at Cabanon as needed!

But ice sculpture/fest in St Come in that region can be cool.

La Tuque pipeline is iconic (stay away on weekends).

Saguenay is muy bueno. West of Valin can get banged up by crisscrossing long trackers.

Ice Hotel is a must at least once. 

Depending on budget & miles & personal preferences, Fairmont & Sheraton & Saccacomi are great experiences, but so is the hospitality at the smaller lodgey places like Windigo & Ravage. 

The hub benefits (lodging & resto & gas & svc) at places like Roquemont in St Raymond are tres bon.

I use this mapping site most: https://www.viaexplora.com/snowmobile/index.html

But the Fcmq version is also amazing for the groomer info:

#1) As you probably already know, always remember to bring two things: Flexibility & your sense of humor (rental Sat phone optional www.spdirect.com)
#2) Regardless of any general routes that you plan, check the grooming reports before going out...
Go to: http://fcmq.viaexplora.com/carte-motoneige/index.html
Click "Services" in the upper right corner
Click “Delai de serfacage” (and whatever other "Attraits" you want to see)
Click "Fermer" to close the drop down box
If you switch the view from Carte (map) to Satellite, it's easier to see the Whites (those haven’t been done 3+ days)
THEN HEAD FOR THE GREENS & YELLOWS!!
"Life's too short to ride whooped out trails"

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13 hours ago, Scranton1 said:

ICE

last year we hit some sort of weather inversion on Valin...It was a craz mist rain that was sticking to my heated shield like no other.  Could only get a mile before using your trick time after time....

i finally catch up to my partner and catch an earful.  He couldn't understand what was going on cuz it wasn't happening to him at all.

the high windshield and his lack of height had him completely isolated from the shit.

never saw anything like it.

Hey I resemble that remark. I'm a solid 5'8" in bare feet. Anyway I ALWAYS purchase the tallest windshield available it gets ice covered not me, flick it back the ice pops right off and you keep going.

I have been searching for tall windshields for the 850 and found nothing that is really going to push the air over you and that is the key. Surely soon someone will come up with one.

Here's the short guy with the big windshield. 😂😂❄️❄️🌬🌬

IMG_2417.JPG

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Goose another thing to think about is from your location is to head due north past plattsburg into Quebec. When you get to rt. 20 go toward Quebec city. Go past Quebec city to Montmagny. Get off rt. 20 and there is a Econo lodge right there. Trail 5 is across the street.  Now this is how we think a of it. You tell your wife you need two travel days. One to get there and one to get home. From your location you leave your home at 5 am. You will be in Montmagny by noon. One guy goes in the hotel and gives them 10 dollars per day per truck and the rest of you get unloaded. Jump on either trail 5 or down to 35 and go to Rdl for the nite. About 100 miles. Maybe a little more. Now realistically your trip has not started yet because you are still on your travel day. From there go to Matane night one. From Matane go south toward Amqui . 591 to 5 . The 587 trail is great. Just past Groomers club house. Follow that trail back to 5 and go back to Amqui for night two. From Amqui go back to RDL for the third nite. Couple different trails can be taken back to RDL. Early up and back to the truck by noon and home by 7 pm. Remember your on your travel day. So now you have 2 half days from your travel days riding on your snowmobile. This is how we get in an extra 200 plus miles. Lol. Hope this helps. Oh yea. Don't drink on the third night. It can make for long travel day home. The 35 trail is a old railway bed and you can go pretty quick on it . Be safe. The trail there are fast and easy to follow. 

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