gkw Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Rob - you can delete this if you feel it is mis-placed, but I thought the guys would like to hear the perspective of a guy who rides decent miles (3,000-4,000 all in Quebec) and has experience with many sleds over the years. First, a little background - I have owned and loved dozens of sleds over the past 40 years. I currently own a 2006 Yamaha Attak which I have thoroughly enjoyed (after customizing almost every element of it to suit my tastes). Prior to that, I was a Doo guy for 10 years, including my 2003 Rev, which I loved but couldn't ride more than 100 miles if I wanted to use my knees the next day. That forced me to look at Yamaha and I swore I could never go back to a 2 stroke after the excellent performance of the Yammy. Anyway, I was invited to ride with the dealers last week in VT on the new Doo's the day before the consumer test ride. This was a much different event as we rode about 70 miles in two groups of about 15 sleds. Included in each group were about 5 of each new model (sadly, all 120" track). There were also current sleds and competitive sleds in the groups for comparison. Trails were largely perfect early in the trip and were much like Quebec trails. The first sled I rode was the 600 Tnt ETec. It rides taller than I remember my Revs, but handling was amazing. Very flat and you could feel the weight difference. The motor was extremely strong and ran excellent. Zero smoke at startup, but there is still some odor. Biggest change is that I finally have somewhere to put my feet! That extra legroom is a big knee-saver!! Before long, I was really enjoying thrashing through the corners and lifting the skis on takeoff. I was also surprised how much the motor pulled at higher speeds when I thought it would flatten out. Seat was too hard for my taste, but the factory Doo guy had already told us that that would be fixed on the production units. After about 10 miles, we stopped and switched sleds. I hopped on a 2008 600 SDI Renegade because I wanted a quick comparison to the longer track (which I prefer for touring). This sled also handled great and pulled nice, but I felt there was a noticeable drop off in "power" and I think this is due to the 600 motor trying to pull that longer (and wider?) track. Not a dog by any means, but you could feel the difference in quickness. Next stop, I got on the 4Tec. First thing you notice is what you don't notice - noise or vibration. This sled is quieter than my Yamaha and certainly quieter than the Etec. Not silent (like the Cat 660) but very quiet. <<Footnote to Skidoo if you are reading this - Please don't "tune" the exhaust noise to find some harmonious sound of a sports car - these sleds don't need any additional, unnecessary decibels thrown in!!>> Engine is very smooth and the clutch came in very low (perhaps 2600?). Power was broad and immediate. In fact, it was jumpy at low speeds because the throttle pull was very easy (which I loved) and the clutching needs a little tweaking. The sled has a heavier (more solid?) feel to it as well as a larger feel due to the wider hood. I enjoyed this larger feel as the trails got a little rougher later in the ride. It felt more like my Attak, except lighter and flatter in the corners. Then it was back to the Etec 600, which was more familiar now that I was used to the XP chassis. It was still a blast to drive, but I was quick to notice the additional noise and vibration which was not there on the 4Tec. Big difference in power (but not top end). This sled would be great for the VAST (Vt) trail system as I know it. Plenty of power, lightweight and fun for short (100-150 mile) days. The more I rode the 4Tec, the more I was convinced that there is no choice. My big concern is gas mileage (actually range) as the Reps are claiming about 18MPG for the 4Tec and 22+ for the ETec. The good news is that the tanks on these sleds are about 1 gallon larger than the new, smaller Yamaha tanks so either sled will have better range than my sled. When we got back from the ride, I noticed that neither group had taken out the two-up luxury cruiser GTX SE Ltd and I asked to take that for a spin. It has the 136 in track and every option known to man including heated seat! I was anxious to try the longer track with the 4tec motor so off I went. The first thing I noticed is that you sit even higher on this sled. Almost too high. There is a gigantic windshield which protects you, but the sensation is almost that you are on top of the sled. But power is not a problem here. The sled pulled hard and strong up to any sane speed but I did not care for the handling compared to the other sleds. Of course that is an unfair comparison. The point is that the 4Tec pulled the additional weight and track with ease. Now the decision is whether to opt for the touring sled (15x137x1.00 with SilentTrak technology) or the Renegade (16x137x1.25) and make it into a touring sled. Tough choice... Sorry for the long post, but I figured some of you might not have the chance to ride before you buy... GKW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDI-HAM Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Geeze you should have tried the Dragon in your picture- Now there's a sled!! LOL!!! I saw an ETec 600 a few weekends ago- I couldn't believe how quiet it was at idle- I looked at the tach and the thing was purring at 1000 rpm! The guy who was riding it said the fuel mileage was about 20 mpg (imperial) and that oil usage is about 1 liter per 1000 kilometers. It will be interesting to see how these DI motors make out in the long run. Have to admit, Bombardier has really been working hard in the past years with new innovations- Nice to see. As for the 4tec- 1200 cc 120 hp- I think they are going way safe with this puppy first year release-(displacement versus hp output) Time will tell, but I have a feeling they are going to start tweaking it as I would assume there is some room to squeeze out a few more ponies- Maybe even slap on a turbo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Good post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTSE800 Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Great feedback GKW. After riding with all you Yammy guy's last month, I realy started thinking 4 stroke. I had rode the 08 TNT and GSX 600's, and for me, they would not work for touring at all, great ditch bangers for sure! Maybe because they was short tracks? When I got home I went online Skidoo.comand noticed they will have the 4 tec in a Renagade. You can also hear the sound of the motor on there web site, it sounds good. Pretty sure this will be my next ride. As for being a bit heavier, that would not bother me at all. Also I just got the 09 riding gear catolog, you can get heated seat cover for the XP's for 300 bucks! Bombardier has really been working hard in the past years with new innovations I agree 100% they keep on pushing the evelope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend700 Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 still trying to figure out what to do for next year. THought I had found an 08 Renegade 600 with 800 miles but the guy had just sold it. THe 4 stroke does interest me as it's basically the same weight as my 05 so I wouldn;t miss the light feeling like I would coming from an XP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 still trying to figure out what to do for next year. THought I had found an 08 Renegade 600 with 800 miles but the guy had just sold it. THe 4 stroke does interest me as it's basically the same weight as my 05 so I wouldn;t miss the light feeling like I would coming from an XP my '08 renegade 600sdi is for sale.. It is at Garneau's now. If I can get a decent price for it I will get a E-tec. I like a light sled, always have. The 08 feels much lighter than the 05. I will stay with Doo 2 strokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunner Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 gkw, nice post on the new etec and 4 stroke, I too have the yamaha attak and also an 08 renegade 600. Very satisfied with both, but I have often thought that if I could have the renegade in a 4 stroke -- that would be the sled. I was very interested to see the option listed on the doo sight a few weeks ago. That should be a great package!!. again ..nice post RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smclelan Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 my '08 renegade 600sdi is for sale.. It is at Garneau's now. If I can get a decent price for it I will get a E-tec.I like a light sled, always have. The 08 feels much lighter than the 05. I will stay with Doo 2 strokes. My 08 GSX 600 will go back to the dealer in the next couple of weeks as well. Next year I too am hoping for an E-Tec, hopefully in the Renagade chassis. This was the first year in over 15 for me to drive a Doo, and I was very impressed to say the least. It will be interesting to see how the 4Tec's are on fuel. My 600 was great, the E-Tec is supposed to be even better on gas and oil. For all the oil it will burn it should be a none issue, virtually the same as a 4 stroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
favarcat Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Nice report Gary. I found this on another site from someone who ordered a new 4-tech. Yes I was told it has an oil filter like any 4 stroke and its easy to get at to change but there is a catch. The 4 tech has a change oil reminder built in that tells you when the oil needs to be changed. I'm assuming it is based on either mileage or hours. Now hers the catch, if you don't change the oil and reset the computer the sled will go into limp mode and the only way to reset the computer is to bring it to your dealer. I would check into this with your dealer and see if this is true about the oil changes on the new 4-tech. Not good for guys that leave for QC to put alot of miles on in a week or 2. Will the oil have to be changed before every trip if it needs it or not, so it will not go over the oil reminder while up there and end up in limp mode or going to a dealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTSE800 Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Question on the 4 tec, does the reverse work the same as the 2 strokes rer or is it done manualy? they don't mention it on there web site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkw Posted March 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Question on the 4 tec, does the reverse work the same as the 2 strokes rer or is it done manualy? they don't mention it on there web site. I believe it works like a Yamaha Phazer - electro mechanical. There is a servo that activates the mechanical reverse. But I can tell you that the mechanical reverse on the models that I drove worked very easy. Just a flick of the thumb. Much quicker than RER. Even Rotax hasn't figured out how to make a four stroke motor run backwards!! GW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTSE800 Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Was not sure on the rer on the 4 stroke, maybe pre ignition would make it run backwards :wacko: Yea, you don't want to have to use the rer if you are in a hurry thats for sure, I found out the hard way. I had a 01 Grand touring with the 800 tripple, P-tec and the rer. The rer in that was much quicker, and all the lights stayed on while it was dooing it's thing, I thought it was pretty cool. Thanks GW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikerider Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Gary, Very nice write up. Just maybe we will see you next year on a Doo. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 VERY GOOD POST GW, Please tell us about the weight difference, or the "feel" of the weight difference. At Ski-Doo show here in VT last week the 4tec on the scale was about 80 lbs. heavier than the Etec. Just too heavy for me after riding the SDI 4000 miles. How was the handling comparison? Oh and by the way tell us about the trails in VT. You actually found a smooth trail? Must have been a payoff involved! I live here and all but refuse to ride here. I feel the trails here just plain suck. Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkw Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 VERY GOOD POST GW, Please tell us about the weight difference, or the "feel" of the weight difference. At Ski-Doo show here in VT last week the 4tec on the scale was about 80 lbs. heavier than the Etec. Just too heavy for me after riding the SDI 4000 miles. How was the handling comparison? Oh and by the way tell us about the trails in VT. You actually found a smooth trail? Must have been a payoff involved! I live here and all but refuse to ride here. I feel the trails here just plain suck. Fred Great questions, Fred... The sled didn't bounce in the rough corners like the ETec, which felt less "planted" than the 4Tec. Now, if you were going to snocross the thing, you would certainly want the Etec. But I have found the additional weight to be a non-issue on the Quebec trail system. When I first rode my Attak in VT, it took very little time to feel the excess weight. The tight corners and narrower (and often thrashed) trails meant more effort to keep the sled on track. This has rarely been an issue in Quebec. And the new Doo is lighter than my Attak by nearly 100 pounds! The 20 HP loss will be offset by that weight difference. I really feel that there is a big difference in "power" between the ETec and 4Tec when you opt for the longer track. You will really feel that difference on the Quebec trails when you squeeze the throttle at 60+ MPH. Both sleds will probably get to very close top speeds, but the 4Tec will get there much quicker. As for VT trails, we were in Woodford, which has lots of straight, wide fire roads which have a Quebec feel to them. We were on the trails early in the AM after the usual overnight grooming. Several locals in the group commented how nice the trails were and they were making plans to ride there again (mid-week). I haven't given up on the VAST trails, but weekend riding is out of the question! GW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Nice! And thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTSE800 Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Found this video on u tube, test ride of the 2009 skidoo rev xp 4-tec 4 stroke at the swift diamond riders snodeo in march of 2008. It gives you a good sound of the motor. At the end of the video, I hear the rider say something about thinking 2 seconds ahead with the throttle? I knew there was something different how a 4 stroke response, is it engine breaking, or out of the hole.? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW3PE_QZ0zI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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