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SkippyDoo

To off trail riders who can’t stay on the trail

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Big Mac,

No, I didn’t miss the point, you need to read the first part of my post as well as the last part. What do you ride?

Hank

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Respectfully your talking about two different issues. Staying off lands your not supposed to be on and also tearing up the trails. If you think your ever going to tell all the locals north in Quebec what track lug or length he can use to get around up there it won’t go. It’s not paddle tracks tearing up the trails and I see more shorter tracks going off trail as long tracks just look for the holes where they were stuck. It’s like guns. It’s not the gun causing the problem it’s the guy holding it!!!! I don’t feel you can blame a class of sleds just the drivers!!

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On 2/3/2019 at 5:41 PM, Snappy Hank said:

 Bigmac,

this is the part you should focus on:

How about asking (demanding) FCMQ, to direct the local club, where there are problems, to assist these distressed land owners by installing temporary snow fencing through these places to force sleds to stay on the right path. Caution tape won’t work, they will drive right through it. That might keep the stupid disrespectful people out. 

This paragraph is what you need to focus on.

 

Snappy Hank

 

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34 minutes ago, Snappy Hank said:

 

Actually I would expect that when there is an issue of sledders disrespecting private land where a trail runs through,  the club is the very first to know. It is my understanding that each club is responsible for and individually nogotiates with the land owner the right of way through their land. This is done and renewed each fall, if you are a land owner with a problem, the club would be the first ones to complain to. If you go to the individual clubs web sites or follow them on face book, you will regularly see any warning about activities that have been reported by the land owner or the clubs patrol guys themselves. One local to me club had 4x4’s taking a liking to their trail in the beginning of the season. The police were called in to try and catch them. Last winter another local club had issues of off trail use on a land owners hilly fields. Again the police were called and on the clubs FB and web site page we were asked to be vigilant and take pics of the violators if we saw them. I imagine if you only use I motoneige to plan your trips, you do not see the clubs trying to solve  these concerns. 

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People have an unclear idea of what the FCMQ is.  It is not some sort of large and powerful agency with unlimited resources with the 250 odd Québec clubs at it's beck and call.  It is merely a coordinating body whose employees, including it's Director-General, are under the direction of the Administrative Council.  This council is comprised of the elected representatives of each of the 13 administrative regions, as well as the Federation President.  Those representatives are elected by the member clubs in each region, and are subject to term limits. FCMQ presidents are elected from the ranks of those regional representatives, and are chosen by the administrative council through an electoral process. Only the permanent staff are salaried employees. The Administrative Council, including the President, are all volunteers.  To sum up, the FCMQ does not tell the clubs what to do.  It coordinates, advises and liaises with the Provincial governments.   It is the clubs that tell the FCMQ what to do based on regional and provincial discussions, and not the other way around.  Most times, when folks say the FCMQ should do this and that, they are unclear on what it's proper function is, and how it operates.

As for off-trail trespassers, the clubs themselves are acutely aware of the issues, and do their best to hinder these entitled, disrespectful jerks.  However, as is the case with most volunteer endeavours, resources are scarce, and it's a sad commentary when those resources must be directed into installing thousands of metres of snow fence rather than towards more productive activities such as signing, brushing, bridge building, etc.

Right of ways are negotiated by individual clubs, and club directors are the first to know when there is a problem.  We were fortunate, in our club, to have had this problem diminish somewhat.  I even had a landowner, with a mix of arable land and wooded areas, congratulate me on the good behaviour of our riders during the previous season.  This, after years of problems with "free riders" on his property.  I do not know to what we can attribute this change but, hey, we'll take what we can get!  Most other area clubs have not been so lucky.

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On 2/6/2019 at 11:21 AM, Gullyrider said:

People have an unclear idea of what the FCMQ is.  It is not some sort of large and powerful agency with unlimited resources with the 250 odd Québec clubs at it's beck and call.  It is merely a coordinating body whose employees, including it's Director-General, are under the direction of the Administrative Council.  This council is comprised of the elected representatives of each of the 13 administrative regions, as well as the Federation President.  Those representatives are elected by the member clubs in each region, and are subject to term limits. FCMQ presidents are elected from the ranks of those regional representatives, and are chosen by the administrative council through an electoral process. Only the permanent staff are salaried employees. The Administrative Council, including the President, are all volunteers.  To sum up, the FCMQ does not tell the clubs what to do.  It coordinates, advises and liaises with the Provincial governments.   It is the clubs that tell the FCMQ what to do based on regional and provincial discussions, and not the other way around.  Most times, when folks say the FCMQ should do this and that, they are unclear on what it's proper function is, and how it operates.

As for off-trail trespassers, the clubs themselves are acutely aware of the issues, and do their best to hinder these entitled, disrespectful jerks.  However, as is the case with most volunteer endeavours, resources are scarce, and it's a sad commentary when those resources must be directed into installing thousands of metres of snow fence rather than towards more productive activities such as signing, brushing, bridge building, etc.

Right of ways are negotiated by individual clubs, and club directors are the first to know when there is a problem.  We were fortunate, in our club, to have had this problem diminish somewhat.  I even had a landowner, with a mix of arable land and wooded areas, congratulate me on the good behaviour of our riders during the previous season.  This, after years of problems with "free riders" on his property.  I do not know to what we can attribute this change but, hey, we'll take what we can get!  Most other area clubs have not been so lucky.

Many thanks for clarifying how this actually works, it makes it crystal clear how large a part we really are at trying to educate and convince these riders to start doing the right thing when passing on others property.

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On February 6, 2019 at 5:02 PM, dmccrea@twcny.rr.com said:

My point Hank was simple you need to change the people to keep them from abuseing the valuable lands we use not the sleds they ride. No sled drives itself off the trail no matter what track it has on it. 

Well said.

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One of the things I like about this site is information is shared and points of view are discussed with respect,  

Edited by Cnc

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Off-trail riders many times do use trails to get to a place to ride - whether it is a legal OT area or just somewhere they choose to jump off. Paddle tracks do far more damage to a trail than normal height lugs.

The point they jump off the groomed trail also becomes a danger point for trail riders who tend to hug the snowbank on the right side of the trail because they create a hump,of snow. 

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On 2/9/2019 at 7:34 PM, Cnc said:

One of the things I like about this site is information is shared and points of view are discussed with respect,  

Agreed! Thanks!

And if one goes "off the trail" of respectful discourse, one should self-govern their own POV's, and realize, that they just need to go ride some more to get happy again!

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As a rider who enjoys both on and off trail, I think some additional education and resources would go a long way.   We have spent a lot of time researching our off trail trips, we are always looking for legal places to play...it would be great to have a map that depicts this.  Will this fix the issues, absolutely not - we  are driving as I type this and every farm field with a trail we pass has corners cut and tracks everywhere...my guess is that most of these tracks are from trail riders, not those seeking out deep powder.   

I think if the snowmobile community works together, we can build something that caters to all riding types! 

- Our off trail trip was out of Pourvoirie Wapishish in February, we had a great time and never laid a track on the trails! 

- Think Snow 

 

 

93E03EE3-09B6-4069-895F-61BAD95A9DCA.jpeg

Edited by snowpromod

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