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Tremblant- St Faustin by pass


Cnc
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Wow!!!  These folks are ridiculous.  They live beside a freeway.  The trail being there is not going to add any meaningful noise or disruption.  I sure hope the politicians don't give into them.  Let's get this trail open and start enjoying it.

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I read about this in the local Tremblant paper. Maybe they have some valid concerns like having their driveways cross the trail and speeding sleds while they are trying to drive out, BUT, one women complained they cut all the trees that blocked the noise from the traffic and view of the 117, unfortunately the trees were not on her property, the owner of a property can cut down his trees if he wants regardless of his neighbours wishes last time I heard. Another resident said his neighbour could not open his garage door without standing on the trail, huh what municipality gave him permission to build right at the edge of his property line, not Tremblant I am sure. Knowing the area well, I am also sure that the continual hum of the traffic and the amount of big trucks rolling past or Jake braking as they slow down will more than drown out the noise of today’s quiet sleds. Grrr, can’t they even wait and see if they have any real concerns before b*tching? Sorry rant over.

Edited by Cnc
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Its ironic that the lady has joined forces with the person instrumental in closing the PTdN which ultimately resulted in her current complaints.   Don't know the facts but don't like the idea of crossing multiple driveways along a trail.  That is a recipe for bad blood at least, as well as increasing chances of crashing.

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It does present the potential for an accident, however responsible riders and proper signage should limit it.  Every driveway above mentioned also comes out to the highway. The landowner must accept responsibility for his safety crossing the trail and pulling into the highway. As snowmobilers we need to make sure we do our part by stopping at every driveway to check for traffic. The government has put a lot of money into this trail, let's make sure it is not irresponsible snowmobilers that make us loose it.  Certainly an area I hope authorities strictly enforce loud pipe laws. 

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1 hour ago, actionjack said:

Its ironic that the lady has joined forces with the person instrumental in closing the PTdN which ultimately resulted in her current complaints.   Don't know the facts but don't like the idea of crossing multiple driveways along a trail.  That is a recipe for bad blood at least, as well as increasing chances of crashing.

While it may be ironic it is also worrisome that she has joined forces with M. lacroix, these guys took the snowmobile club, the city and the Quebec government to court over the pitit Train de Nord and won. If that is the direction these people take we may never see this trail opened or shut down in short order. 
one point that is made in the article is why the trail does not go down the medium of the 117, there may be logistics that made it not practical but I have to agree, it would have been bulletproof. Shortly after the pitit train de nord was closed in order to get by the closure we did travel down the medium once. The medium is about a 40-50 feet wide grassy area with gullies, trees and rock out crops to get by but if it was doable then it would have been an option to construct the trail there. 

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Sounds like the club did their homework here though.  They've worked within the existing laws.  He's hoping this blows over.  Snowmobiling has changed over the last 15 years.  Some of the arguments from that court case wouldn't hold the same weight today that they did back then.  The emissions (environmental and noise) are far less than they were before.  Being right beside a 4 lane highway can only help.  This trail was thought out.  The club jumped through every hoop and incurred the delays to do this right.  For these folks (a very small number) to now say they didn't know this was coming and didn't have a chance to comment is complete BS.  You can never please everyone.

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12 minutes ago, Signfan said:

Sounds like the club did their homework here though.  They've worked within the existing laws.  He's hoping this blows over.  Snowmobiling has changed over the last 15 years.  Some of the arguments from that court case wouldn't hold the same weight today that they did back then.  The emissions (environmental and noise) are far less than they were before.  Being right beside a 4 lane highway can only help.  This trail was thought out.  The club jumped through every hoop and incurred the delays to do this right.  For these folks (a very small number) to now say they didn't know this was coming and didn't have a chance to comment is complete BS.  You can never please everyone.

And there in lies a lot of the problem, you can’t please everyone. Take any activity you want and there are those who will be against it simply because it is not their cup of tea.

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  • 4 weeks later...

https://linformationdunordmonttremblant.ca/actualites/2019/12/5/le-sentier-de-motoneige-nouvrira-pas-a-moins-dune-entente-avec-une-citoyenne-oubliee.html?fbclid=IwAR0Sfwv-KrGC5jaFmj1o6GBX_v-nSyC3sPqoUNXJijn-FIEzVMzc_PWrU0M#.Xe0CEHMVSBZ.facebook

 News 5 DECEMBER 2019
 
 The snowmobile trail will not open unless an agreement with a forgotten citizen
 About fifty snowmobilers at a meeting of the Saint-Faustin-Lac-Carré municipal council on December 3, received as an icy squall the news that, unless an agreement with an opposite Faustilacoise, the Saint snowmobile trail  -Faustin-Lac-Carré / Mont-Tremblant will not open again this winter.

 The approximately 9-kilometer trail was laid out in the northern right-of-way of Highway 117.
 The approximately 9-kilometer trail was laid out in the northern right-of-way of Highway 117.
 © Photo Northern Info - Archives
 Mayor Pierre Poirier made this revelation at the beginning of the meeting.  "If there is no agreement with the complainant, the trail does not open.  This is the categorical message we received from Transport Minister François Bonnardel, "he said.

 We know that a working committee was set up in early November after riparian residents objected to the snowmobile trail of about 9 kilometers.  This is the "bypass trail", according to the term "snowmobilers", which is intended to replace the portion of the P'tit Train du Nord corridor closed following a court judgment in 2004. The Government of Québec  gave the green light in December 2017 to the development of the "bypass trail" and construction began during the summer.  The trail is virtually finished at this point.

 Snowmobile enthusiasts and business people had the chance to present themselves at the meeting of the Saint-Faustin-Lac-Carré municipal council to try to find out more about the evolution of the  thorny file.

 "The working committee is in solution mode right now.  There have already been several meetings with the complainant, "said Mayor Poirier.

 Undeniable error

 If some citizens of Mont-Tremblant are concerned about noise and safety at the wheel, Mayor Pierre Poirier pointed out at the outset that there had indeed been an error affecting a resident of her municipality of Saint-  Faustin-Lac-Carré.  While her home is within the 30-meter radius, she was never met to obtain consent.

 A list of six residents whose home is within 30 meters and must absolutely be visited was drawn up by the MTQ.  But the name of the opponent was not there.  It has therefore never been visited.  His residence is only 17 meters from the trail.

 "There was indeed an error.  The goal is not to know who made this mistake, but to find a solution, "said the mayor.

 The latter stated that, on the department's side, there was no intention of engaging in a legal battle with the complainant.  "The ministry wants the trail to be open in a climate of good understanding with the residents," he said.

 The municipality of Saint-Faustin-Lac-Carré will continue to delegate a representative to sit on the working committee, added Mayor Poirier.

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Over a million dollars and more than a year in planning, and everyone knows exactly what work is being done, and why, and what the trail is for, it is hard to understand that residents less than 20 yards away really did not know until now, what this work was all about, and it just so happens, that they don't like snowmobiles??I cannot imagine a construction project of this size going on literally outside my door step for 9 months, without finding out what was going on until the last day.Sure sounds like someone who had a plan to be a major problem well after the fact, who spent a lot of time getting organized and connected. It also seems like they were negligent in not inquiring on the first day, if it is even remotely possible that they did not know what was happening, it's not like this was a secret.I will be surprised if anyone can make an agreement with this person, unless they are just looking for a pay out to go away. What is needed here in a case like this is an old fashion judge who throws the book out and administers some common sense, they should have come forward a year ago, before a single shovel touched the ground. If they prevail, the precedent will make it nearly impossible to build any new trails or re-routes, not to mention a tremendous loss of valuable revenue.What a shame!!

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QB!  More power to you for looking the other way when the good town & citizens of Becket meet with all neighbors but you and go ahead and run some playground right thru Roberto mountain! 

I've got faith they'll correct the error and pay proper respects to the nice old lady.  Maybe offer her a nice 2-up slowmobile ride on one of those whisper-quiet Doos?!

 

Erreur indéniable

Si quelques citoyens de Mont-Tremblant s’inquiètent du bruit et de la sécurité au volant, le maire Pierre Poirier a souligné d’entrée de jeu qu’il y avait bel et bien eu une erreur affectant une résidente de sa municipalité de Saint-Faustin-Lac-Carré. Alors que sa résidence se trouve à l’intérieur du rayon de 30 mètres, elle n’a jamais été rencontrée pour obtenir un consentement.

Une liste de six résidents dont la demeure se trouve à l’intérieur du 30 mètres et devant absolument être visités avait été dressée par le MTQ. Or, le nom de l’opposante ne s’y trouvait pas. Elle n’a, par conséquent, jamais été visitée. Sa résidence n’est qu’à 17 mètres du sentier.

« Il y a effectivement eu une erreur. Le but n’est pas de savoir qui a fait cette erreur, mais de trouver une solution », a mentionné le maire.

Ce dernier a précisé que, du côté du ministère, on n’envisageait nullement de se lancer dans une bataille juridique avec la plaignante. « Le ministère veut que le sentier soit ouvert dans un climat de bonne entente avec les résidents », a-t-il expliqué.

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Just gotta be more thorough and pay respect to all possible stakeholders!

This granny knew about the construction in her front yard.

And probably knew about the list of meetings with neighbors that she was overlooked on.

Put me down for: Keeping the faith in common sense!

Anybody reminded of Vera Coking?  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vera_Coking

 

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https://linformationdunordmonttremblant.ca/actualites/2019/12/13/le-sentier-de-motoneige-nouvrira-pas-cette-saison.html

 

The Fédération des clubs de motoneigistes du Québec (FCMQ) made the announcement in a press release on Friday (December 13).  "The Federation of Snowmobile Clubs of Quebec, in concert with the Diable et Rouge Snowmobile Club announce, with great regret, the postponement of the opening of the connection trail connecting Saint-Faustin-Lac-Carré and Mont-Tremblant",  highlights are we.

 The FCMQ evokes a set of technical, operational, security and acceptability reasons "which do not meet the required standards at this stage".

 The working group that had been formed, in the wake of the alarm that had sounded from local residents, will continue to work to find winning solutions, said the FCMQ.  The group adds that it hopes that these solutions will make it possible to respond to the challenges that have the effect of delaying the opening.

 “Despite our disappointment, and that of the Diable et Rouge snowmobile club, we continue to represent all snowmobilers and collaborate with other partners so that the connection trail can open next year, in conditions that will satisfy  all parties, ”said FCMQ president Réal Camiré.

 The working group formed to find solutions to the impasse is made up of the member for Labelle Chantale Jeannotte, elected officials from Mont-Tremblant and Saint-Faustin-Lac-Carré, representatives from the Ministère des Transports and representatives from  the Federation of Snowmobile Clubs.

 The opening of the approximately 9-kilometer trail was under development when citizens noted the danger it posed for motorists, its impact on the tranquility for residents and expressed doubts about the prior information conveyed to the  subject of the trail.

 The task force finally found that a local citizen, whose home was less than 30 meters from the trail as stipulated in the regulations, had never signed a consent.  In fact, his name had been forgotten and was not on a list of residents within 30 meters.  Transport Minister François Bonnardel immediately asked that negotiations be undertaken with the citizen to find common ground, failing which the trail would remain closed.

 

 

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I just read the press release posted on the Diable et Rouge Face Book page. What a disappointment. While they cite technical, operational and security reasons, as well as social acceptance, we all know the main reason is social  non acceptance from a handful of residents. I can’t help but wonder about if these same residents who argue among other things an increased danger of a snowmobile trail passing the end of their drive way were told their driveways entering into a 4 lane high speed highway presented a danger to motorists on the highway and should be fenced off and another route should be found. Would they suddenly be screaming a different tune?

4B296957-A0DB-4A02-B1BF-AE2D36F61849.jpeg

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2 hours ago, smclelan said:

I find it very disappointing that at this very late stage of the project the person is just speaking up now. 

You betcha and what’s even more disappointing.....they won. Bastards!!!!or well strategized?

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59 minutes ago, Trailblazer said:

You betcha and what’s even more disappointing.....they won. Bastards!!!!or well strategized?

One bitten twice shy, after the court case and surprise judgement that closed the pitit train du nord, they are backing down rather than go down that road again. 

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Disappointing, infuriating. You have to wonder if the "fix" was in. I mean those people let the club and pro-snomo community think this was resolved and then let them spend hundreds of thousands of dollars only to drop the hammer at the very end. This was textbook guerrilla warfare, nothing else. Its simply not possibly an oversight to exclude the name of a homeowner whose property is 17 meters from the trail and probably even much closer to the limits of disturbance. They probably sent that homeowner on an extended vacation too during construction like they did the Cardinal while Chateau Montebello was built. 

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Reminds me of Alberta trying to get an oil pipeline to get oil out of Canada.  Hurdle after hurdle.   They are too far into this to give up now.  Move the section past this ladies house to the center median and build a sound wall on her property line or re-plant the trees that were removed.  Then carry on and open the trail.  They'll loose another year, but should stil get this opened eventually.  Important thing is they have the politicians on side.  They need to keep it that way and address the concern.

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1 hour ago, actionjack said:

Disappointing, infuriating. You have to wonder if the "fix" was in. I mean those people let the club and pro-snomo community think this was resolved and then let them spend hundreds of thousands of dollars only to drop the hammer at the very end. This was textbook guerrilla warfare, nothing else. Its simply not possibly an oversight to exclude the name of a homeowner whose property is 17 meters from the trail and probably even much closer to the limits of disturbance. They probably sent that homeowner on an extended vacation too during construction like they did the Cardinal while Chateau Montebello was built. 

The Fairmont? Really? that is a great idea.... We should have spent 15k, sent them to Fla for the winter, then next year the trail is "Established" and show economic benefit to the area and have local non sledder backing.

GutZ

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5 minutes ago, MrGutz said:

The Fairmont? Really? that is a great idea.... We should have spent 15k, sent them to Fla for the winter, then next year the trail is "Established" and show economic benefit to the area and have local non sledder backing.

GutZ

I was suggesting (half sarcastically) that those opposed to the trail had the foresight make this homeowner scarce during the vetting process and incident construction by sending them away.  The story goes that in order to build Chateau Montebello quickly the Curé, or parish leader, was sent to Rome on an all expenses paid trip so crews could work on Sundays.

On the other hand, an all expenses paid winter stay for this person may well be the cure.

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We Rode down the median separating the lanes years ago to get through when the Pitit Train du Nord first closed, if we could do it then without any “ built trail” I imagine  it would be doable and maybe even doable with less work and money. As I remember the trail when it joined the Pitit train du Nord had to cross the 4 lanes of traffic somewhere near St Agathe, obviously to run up the median you only have to cross 2 lanes of traffic running in the same direction and another 2 to get off and reconnect to the trail in St Jovite. Possibly less dangerous than being chased by an irate  resident with her broom!

Edited by Cnc
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