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heard a rumor

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trails closing 2-1 because the farmers have a disagreement with the government, anyone know whats going on? Steve :bc:

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Farmers are threatening to close trails through their land it is the same group as always in years past, the UPA. Basically is the "Union of Agricultural Producers" in english. They are upset about new taxes imposed by the Quebec Government on them. So this is there way of basically using there land to hold the govt hostage and us along with it. "They cut off their nose to spite their face" if you ask me. As closing trals would just be a big F-You to their own towns and neighbors. The ones who work in hotels, auberges, gas stations, restaurants and snowmobile dealerships etc, etc. 

they however do not see it that way. So that is the way it is. 

Right now I have read there will be no closure. They meet again next week. I highly doubt the government wants to lose all the money from tourism which they will if they don't satisfy farmers. 

Farmers are smart this is a much better way to have them by the balls(the govt) in the middle of a great season. Then to threaten in fall when there is no snow yet. 

Time for permanent trail agreements with the farmers they want something need to give something. Ridiculous we need to be going through this ever other few years.

Edited by iceman

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14 hours ago, iceman said:

Farmers are threatening to close trails through their land it is the same group as always in years past, the UPA. Basically is the "Union of Agricultural Producers" in english. They are upset about new taxes imposed by the Quebec Government on them. So this is there way of basically using there land to hold the govt hostage and us along with it. "They cut off their nose to spite their face" if you ask me. As closing trals would just be a big F-You to their own towns and neighbors. The ones who work in hotels, auberges, gas stations, restaurants and snowmobile dealerships etc, etc. 

they however do not see it that way. So that is the way it is. 

Right now I have read there will be no closure. They meet again next week. I highly doubt the government wants to lose all the money from tourism which they will if they don't satisfy farmers. 

Farmers are smart this is a much better way to have them by the balls(the govt) in the middle of a great season. Then to threaten in fall when there is no snow yet. 

Time for permanent trail agreements with the farmers they want something need to give something. Ridiculous we need to be going through this ever other few years.

Just curious how the QB Gov taxes the farmers? A higher real estate tax? Or some other tax?

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16 minutes ago, im4snow said:

Just curious how the QB Gov taxes the farmers? A higher real estate tax? Or some other tax?

It is certainly complicated but I guess the easiest way to put it is it's more about the amount of tax breaks and subsidizing the farmers receive, more than an actual tax on them. I'm no farmer but this is what I understand. 

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Hearing more tonight that the minister of Agriculture is not budging on the position they are taking with the farmers. Many of which are facing essentially a 30-40% increase in taxes due to cuts in programs that in the past gave them tax credits. 

I still have faith they will come to some agreement, if not then they will block access through their lands starting Feb. 6 from what I am seeing. 

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4 minutes ago, Pipeman said:

I assume this is all of Quebec farm land or is it isolated to certain areas?

 

Thanks !

All of Quebec as far as I know. Read stuff from Abitibi, all the way to Gaspe.

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This is not good. 

Waiting for someone to "blink" is not entertaining if you have a couple more trips to La Belle Province on the table.

They have always reached accord during past similar situations, but this Agriculture Minister sounds like a hard-ass.

 

Should this come down .................The only factor that one could consider is seek trails in regions that are primarily woodland (Gaspesie, big chunks of Abitibi, etc.) where the farming community does not have the snowmobile community  by the shorthairs.

 

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Tell me about it. Four of us have a five day backpacking trip planned and day 5 falls on February 6th...the first day of the proposed closure! Three of the four nights we can't move because outfitters / hotels are full the times we are there. I guess we'll have to cross our fingers and hope there is some sort of resolution or find someone to bring our trailer to us as the trails around Maniwaki or those in jeopardy? The upside is trail conditions are excellent.

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This is gonna come down to the wire. Hopefully the Agriculture Minister will give in. Or it's gonna be basically over in many areas.

Story from paper today here. Translated best i could.

AGRICULTURE. Given the lack of "total openness" of the government, the Mauricie Union of Agricultural Producers (UPA) will be forced to carry out their threats in February. The list of members of the association is now waiting only for the signal to prohibit access to snowmobiles to its farmland.

The snowmobile season will end much earlier than expected for many fans of this winter sport. In the last few days, placards were installed near the trails to announce the ban to come.

"We did not make this decision cheerfully," said the president of the UPA Mauricie, Jean-Marie Giguère. On the contrary, agricultural producers in the region would have liked to avoid a fence chicane. The blockade will be triggered around February 4, he warns.

The association hopes that this action will be enough to convince the provincial government to review its program on agricultural taxes. In particular, it calls for a moratorium on the implementation of the reform. Since last March, the UPA has also been calling for a working table to raise the concerns of its members.

"To date, we have to admit that agricultural producers have come to a standstill. The minister Paradis allows himself to taunt us by camping in a contemptuous rhetoric facing the test of facts, "denounced Mr. Giguère.

Usually farmers can benefit from the reimbursement of part of their taxes. These programs are commonplace elsewhere in Canada, in many US states and in Europe. They are effective only on the value of the land and farm buildings of the producers.

At least, it was a common practice until the Quebec government decided to revise its Farm Property Tax Credit Program (PCTFA).

The ministry is "completely disconnected from reality", firmly supports the president of UPA Mauricie. According to him, the reform jeopardizes the entire agricultural industry in the province.

He says his members will face a 30 to 40% increase in taxes. Some will see their account jump by more than $ 1,000. As for the Minister of Agriculture, it is estimated that only 300 farmers will be affected by an average increase of $ 113 per year.

"It's completely ridiculous. We have filed a file of more than 300 pages confirming our figures. There is evidence in support, black and white, of the firm Raymond Chabot, "says Mr. Giguère.

The Mauricie agriculture industry represents more than 1,100 businesses, thousands of jobs and nearly 200 million economic spin-offs.

The Union des producteurs intends to carry out its means of pressure well until obtaining an opening on the part of Québec. Thus, the blockade of trails could continue this summer and even this fall.

"Trails are not just occupied by snowmobilers. Hikers and equestrian enthusiasts also use these paths which pass directly on our lands. We have always been happy to make them accessible. Unfortunately, we have no other solution, "concluded Mr. Giguère.

In the long term, the blockade could have unprecedented impacts on the tourism industry.

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1 hour ago, iceman said:

This is gonna come down to the wire. Hopefully the Agriculture Minister will give in. Or it's gonna be basically over in many areas.

Story from paper today here. Translated best i could.

AGRICULTURE. Given the lack of "total openness" of the government, the Mauricie Union of Agricultural Producers (UPA) will be forced to carry out their threats in February. The list of members of the association is now waiting only for the signal to prohibit access to snowmobiles to its farmland.

The snowmobile season will end much earlier than expected for many fans of this winter sport. In the last few days, placards were installed near the trails to announce the ban to come.

"We did not make this decision cheerfully," said the president of the UPA Mauricie, Jean-Marie Giguère. On the contrary, agricultural producers in the region would have liked to avoid a fence chicane. The blockade will be triggered around February 4, he warns.

The association hopes that this action will be enough to convince the provincial government to review its program on agricultural taxes. In particular, it calls for a moratorium on the implementation of the reform. Since last March, the UPA has also been calling for a working table to raise the concerns of its members.

"To date, we have to admit that agricultural producers have come to a standstill. The minister Paradis allows himself to taunt us by camping in a contemptuous rhetoric facing the test of facts, "denounced Mr. Giguère.

Usually farmers can benefit from the reimbursement of part of their taxes. These programs are commonplace elsewhere in Canada, in many US states and in Europe. They are effective only on the value of the land and farm buildings of the producers.

At least, it was a common practice until the Quebec government decided to revise its Farm Property Tax Credit Program (PCTFA).

The ministry is "completely disconnected from reality", firmly supports the president of UPA Mauricie. According to him, the reform jeopardizes the entire agricultural industry in the province.

He says his members will face a 30 to 40% increase in taxes. Some will see their account jump by more than $ 1,000. As for the Minister of Agriculture, it is estimated that only 300 farmers will be affected by an average increase of $ 113 per year.

"It's completely ridiculous. We have filed a file of more than 300 pages confirming our figures. There is evidence in support, black and white, of the firm Raymond Chabot, "says Mr. Giguère.

The Mauricie agriculture industry represents more than 1,100 businesses, thousands of jobs and nearly 200 million economic spin-offs.

The Union des producteurs intends to carry out its means of pressure well until obtaining an opening on the part of Québec. Thus, the blockade of trails could continue this summer and even this fall.

"Trails are not just occupied by snowmobilers. Hikers and equestrian enthusiasts also use these paths which pass directly on our lands. We have always been happy to make them accessible. Unfortunately, we have no other solution, "concluded Mr. Giguère.

In the long term, the blockade could have unprecedented impacts on the tourism industry.

Similar article in the l'information du Nord ( Mont-Tremblant )paper today and a picture of a trail side sign. This paper has the date as the 1st of February for the closures in the Laurentides if there is no movement on the government's part. The article does go on to quote the president of the local snowmobile club as saying what they are hearing from the local farmers is they will not participate in this blockage. Let's hope for the best, the season is short enough.

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Problem I see is one farmer could shut down miles of trails. I would like to know if it is about 110 dollars or even a thousand per farmer. If it is 110 then the union is looking for something not worth fighting over. Even it was a 1000 the and there were 300 farms that's not a lot for  the government to take a chance on losing the revenue from snowmobiling and the four wheeler's. 

 What I do see is Ontario smiling because people are going where the snow is and they do have nice trails there. Personally I don't get why this is happening right now, Maybe there is some government officials that need to be spoken to, I hope it's not just a power struggle between two people in government. I want to go ride my sled.

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7 minutes ago, markusvt said:

Seems to come up every few years, never amounts to anything.

Sure hope this does not come to be reality this time. 

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1 hour ago, Teet F8SP said:

Especially for us who purchased year passes already...

Even if there were to be trail closures on farmland, there will still be plenty of great trails that will be opened!

For now everything is open and you guys should not worry too much about this! Most trails that are away from the St-Laurence valley won't be affected anyways! You might have to drive an extra hour north to get to trails that are on Crown land or may be adjust you plans a little!  Going north from La Tuque, Matawin, St-Michel-des-Saints, Mont-Laurier, St-Raymond, etc..will be safe values...but again there's no strike for now!

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From what I read on https://www.upa.qc.ca/en/  and CBC  radio-Canada http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1012401/agriculteur-upa-outaouais-gatineau-motoneige ,

It's only certain areas of quebec  that would be blocked and it would be from feb. 6th.  It's really important to do fact checking on this matter because  just talking about it scares tourists away.

The reality is that the governement officials have always until now sat down at the table with farmers and managed to keep the trails opened.

To be on the safe side of thing before heading up to Qc just google

''UPA and the name of the region where you are heading ''

and you'll get the news from the local farmer's union that way you'll have more details if the trails are blocked or not. Hell you'll even have the local union's phone number.

 

 

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Ok Hillary, I'll get my fact checkers going.

Bottom line is if they block any trailsit will significantly affect those of us who make province wide saddlebag trips. I'm not one to just go ride the same trail back and forth even if its the only one open. Imagine all the people who will be doing just that if they close trails through agricultural land. Stupid nonsense that we need to go through this every other year it seems. Farmers want their cake fine...then give it to them, and they sign agreeing to permanent passage through land. If no then give them nothing and let them suffer the financial consequences along with their fellow neighbors who will all be affected by no sleds through town. When they come back begging to negotiate then they sign for a permanent trail system or they can go kick rocks.

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Surprised that there is not one word about this on the FCMQ website....at least that I could see.

Maybe they are trying not to start a panic with people cancelling rooms and vacations.

If I remember correctly,last time they were posting updates on the status.

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1 hour ago, NSHM said:

Surprised that there is not one word about this on the FCMQ website....at least that I could see.

Maybe they are trying not to start a panic with people cancelling rooms and vacations.

If I remember correctly,last time they were posting updates on the status.

You are right on. Just ignore the Elephant in the room it will go away. 

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Letter from a Farmer in St Maurice. This guy gets it. 


I am writing today expressing my great disappointment in the choice of the means of pressure that the Union of Agricultural Producers (UPA) has made recently.

Indeed, the decision to boycott the snowmobile trails on our land makes me jump a lot and this leads me to ask several questions.

I would like to share with you those that are part of my reflection.

Do you think we are targeting the right people by opting for this? Do not you think that penalized people will be our own customers?

Indeed, the snowmobile relays that serve our products will be the ones who suffer the most. Is it really on them that we have to exert that pressure? Do we really want to make them suffer?

I believe we should be loyal partners to those entrepreneurs in our regions who are dependent on our actions.

Moreover, we will tarnish our image towards the fans of this sport, who are also our customers.

Are we truly logical and true partners when making our choices?

We should make it our duty to be positive actors in the economic development of our regions.

Where has our solidarity and gratitude for our customers gone?

My goal today is simply to inspire reflection to ensure that our choice is logical and thoughtful.

Good snowmobile season, dear customers!

Mario Massicotte

Agricultural Producer

Saint-Maurice

 

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