For over 25 years of enjoying Quebec, these basic concepts have kept us out of problems. Several years ago we took a few moments and put them to paper to give to a new guy that was riding with us for the 1st time. Not looking for a debate, just though I'd pass them on for fun. If you pick up anything you like.......that's great. Ride right and stay safe.

TIPS FOR BEING SMART & STAYING SAFE

1. HAND SIGNALS

• Hazards or surprise turns that you can see better than the guy following you - give them a wave

• Slowing or stopping - hand straight up, very important, guy behind you may be in your dust

• Groomer - straight up, circling like a beacon. Off trail Wildlife (Optional) antler or jumping motion

• Road crossings - No waving the next guy on, everybody decides for themselves. Pointing to oncoming cars or absolute stop signals are acceptable.

• All other *#@*! signs are frowned upon, we prefer riders stay in their lane w/ both hands on the bars

2. SLOWING OR STOPPING

• Obvious hand signal ALWAYS especially for an unexpected mechanical problems

• Pull to extreme right IMMEDIATELY

• No double wide stopping EVER

• Pull over in visible areas only

• Do not visit in the trail….EVER

3. ALWAYS STAY TO RIGHT

• Oncoming traffic comes surprisingly fast, like missiles. Think about meeting yourself

• A safety margin of maneuverability is a good idea if oncoming sled is in your lane

• If you choose to cross over, have good sight lines (no hill crests) and get back quickly

• If you accidentally cross over get back quickly, it’s a good skill to practice

• Red trail stakes are for snowmobiles, blue trail stakes are for ATVs, VTTs

4. CRASH AVOIDANCE

• Crashing is NOT an option, don’t give up, drive it, make the turns and miss the problems

• In a panic keep your hands off the brake, you ain’t gonna stop and the throttle is your friend, drive it!

• If you miss the trail, look between trees or past obstacles not at them, you always go where you look.

• If you miss a corner, don’t stop or turn immediately, you may end up wearing the next guy

• If you have an incident in the trail, immediately get out of the way, others are coming and need space

• If you get stuck, don’t have a heart attack, make a plan, take your time, prepare exit path or just wait.

• People doing stupid stuff, rental sleds, groomers and wildlife, happen. Be prepared for the unexpected.

• If you avoid a problem, immediately get out of the way, the next guy also needs a place to go.

5. INTERSECTIONS

• Slow up, if no one is waiting to direct you, always assume the biggest most traveled choice

• If there was a guy there for you, make sure the guy after you gets the message as well

• It is not always necessary to stop, just makes sure the next guy sees which way you are going

• Lost or confused, just sit there and wait, we have only lost one guy in 20 years, he didn’t wait

• Never let your mind play tricks on you and pick the goat path over the bigger trail.

6. PASSING SLOWER TRAFFIC

• Be sure that they know you are there by revving engine or putting your light in their mirror

• Make pass quickly and where you choose, no blind corners, no hill crests

• Get back on your side ASAP

• Be aware that some people are A) oblivious to you being there B) never give you room C) randomly sway from side to side D) willing to put you in the bush E) going to get aggressive or F) all the above

7. BEING PASSED

• If the guy is there, give him space, let him in, there is no rescue crew waiting in the next turn

8. FOLLOWING DISTANCES

• Reaction time, visibility, the unexpected, you choose how fast and how close.

• If you live in the dust, you may die in the dust.

• Every 5-10 miles or so, try to make visual (light beam) contact with the next sled, if you do not (probable whiz stop), slow down till you see his light coming, blink your brake and take off.

• If the delay is longer than, belt change, plug change and whiz stop combined, turn around in a visible area and go looking. Don’t block the trail while turning and be choosy about turning around outside the trail, stuck always sucks.

• If the problem is major, stay calm, the system will work and sooner than later, everyone will be back

Good common sense for all!!

For over 25 years of enjoying Quebec, these basic concepts have kept us out of problems. Several years ago we took a few moments and put them to paper to give to a new guy that was riding with us for the 1st time. Not looking for a debate, just though I'd pass them on for fun. If you pick up anything you like.......that's great. Ride right and stay safe.

TIPS FOR BEING SMART & STAYING SAFE

1. HAND SIGNALS

• Hazards or surprise turns that you can see better than the guy following you - give them a wave

• Slowing or stopping - hand straight up, very important, guy behind you may be in your dust

• Groomer - straight up, circling like a beacon. Off trail Wildlife (Optional) antler or jumping motion

• Road crossings - No waving the next guy on, everybody decides for themselves. Pointing to oncoming cars or absolute stop signals are acceptable.

• All other *#@*! signs are frowned upon, we prefer riders stay in their lane w/ both hands on the bars

2. SLOWING OR STOPPING

• Obvious hand signal ALWAYS especially for an unexpected mechanical problems

• Pull to extreme right IMMEDIATELY

• No double wide stopping EVER

• Pull over in visible areas only

• Do not visit in the trail….EVER

3. ALWAYS STAY TO RIGHT

• Oncoming traffic comes surprisingly fast, like missiles. Think about meeting yourself

• A safety margin of maneuverability is a good idea if oncoming sled is in your lane

• If you choose to cross over, have good sight lines (no hill crests) and get back quickly

• If you accidentally cross over get back quickly, it’s a good skill to practice

• Red trail stakes are for snowmobiles, blue trail stakes are for ATVs, VTTs

4. CRASH AVOIDANCE

• Crashing is NOT an option, don’t give up, drive it, make the turns and miss the problems

• In a panic keep your hands off the brake, you ain’t gonna stop and the throttle is your friend, drive it!

• If you miss the trail, look between trees or past obstacles not at them, you always go where you look.

• If you miss a corner, don’t stop or turn immediately, you may end up wearing the next guy

• If you have an incident in the trail, immediately get out of the way, others are coming and need space

• If you get stuck, don’t have a heart attack, make a plan, take your time, prepare exit path or just wait.

• People doing stupid stuff, rental sleds, groomers and wildlife, happen. Be prepared for the unexpected.

• If you avoid a problem, immediately get out of the way, the next guy also needs a place to go.

5. INTERSECTIONS

• Slow up, if no one is waiting to direct you, always assume the biggest most traveled choice

• If there was a guy there for you, make sure the guy after you gets the message as well

• It is not always necessary to stop, just makes sure the next guy sees which way you are going

• Lost or confused, just sit there and wait, we have only lost one guy in 20 years, he didn’t wait

• Never let your mind play tricks on you and pick the goat path over the bigger trail.

6. PASSING SLOWER TRAFFIC

• Be sure that they know you are there by revving engine or putting your light in their mirror

• Make pass quickly and where you choose, no blind corners, no hill crests

• Get back on your side ASAP

• Be aware that some people are A) oblivious to you being there B) never give you room C) randomly sway from side to side D) willing to put you in the bush E) going to get aggressive or F) all the above

7. BEING PASSED

• If the guy is there, give him space, let him in, there is no rescue crew waiting in the next turn

8. FOLLOWING DISTANCES

• Reaction time, visibility, the unexpected, you choose how fast and how close.

• If you live in the dust, you may die in the dust.

• Every 5-10 miles or so, try to make visual (light beam) contact with the next sled, if you do not (probable whiz stop), slow down till you see his light coming, blink your brake and take off.

• If the delay is longer than, belt change, plug change and whiz stop combined, turn around in a visible area and go looking. Don’t block the trail while turning and be choosy about turning around outside the trail, stuck always sucks.

• If the problem is major, stay calm, the system will work and sooner than later, everyone will be back

I agree for the most part, however 2 points of contention are as follows:

1. When I don't get a hand signal from you on the way by, I give you the Quebec original, world renound, number one hand signal, the one to which I refer does not involve the index either. I understand your philosophy about letting go of the bars with one hand, however as far as I am concerned if you are scared to let go for a sec when encountering oncoming vehicles, you must be either riding to fast, or not over to the right far enough. Granted there are a few circumstances that merrit exception to the hand signal rules.

2. NEVER PASS. It is plain stupid to think that because the guy in front has mirrors, he actually uses them. The fact that you are going to pass what could be a local, with your US registration clearly visible, just makes them say "Cris d'Americains!" even more. Chances are that sooner or later he, or she, will realize that someone is behind them, and they will let you by. Again there are a few exceptions to this rule, but for the most part I think it is better to wait 20 minutes to pass, than it is to spend one second on the left side of the trail, you said yourself, missiles coming the other way. And what is really going to happen when the leader of your group passes? Chances are that not all the rest of your group will make it around, so you end up waiting for them at the next intersection anyways. Especially late at night when all you can see is head light, is that me your buddy behind you, or is that the guy you just passed who is not in your group?

I think the 2 of us argued on this site last year about hand signals for oncoming traffic. I do see your point about letting go of the bars, but I feel that knowing how many are behind the leader when snow dust gets whipped up in the blind corners is priceless. They have a light system for mounting on the sled for signals. Red for more coming, green for good to go. If I though people understood what the light meant I would buy one.

Many times (usually in the states) in areas with traffic I have gotten the "last" signal from a rider only to see more sleds following along...Last year my son and I followed 3 guys from NH. west on the 35, the rider directly in front of me signaled last in line each time we met oncoming riders, knowing full well I was behind him...when they turned for Montmagny I pulled over and reminded my son why we don't trust or use hand signals . just my 2 cents....

You could argue that if you should be riding under control and far enough to the right such that it's safe to signal with one hand, then under those conditions, you don't need to signal since there's no danger for anyone. This debate will go one forever. I ride with gauntlets and only signal when there's a groomer around. I don't know how many times I've been behind a person holding up the last sled signal. For those that can't always ride like there's an unsafe rider coming the other way, when you're hand signals don't help you with the first sled you see, assume for the next 5 minutes, that there's an unsafe sled coming the other way. Does anyone know why Quebec residents hold there arm out sideways when you meet them on the trail?

You could argue that if you should be riding under control and far enough to the right such that it's safe to signal with one hand, then under those conditions, you don't need to signal since there's no danger for anyone. This debate will go one forever. I ride with gauntlets and only signal when there's a groomer around. I don't know how many times I've been behind a person holding up the last sled signal. For those that can't always ride like there's an unsafe rider coming the other way, when you're hand signals don't help you with the first sled you see, assume for the next 5 minutes, that there's an unsafe sled coming the other way. Does anyone know why Quebec residents hold there arm out sideways when you meet them on the trail?

when you meet a group of sledders from pq ,the first one of the group hold his arm sideways to advise his friends to slow down and traffic is coming.

the first guy on the group advice the second one and the second one advice the third one ,etc ,etc ,etc

groomer !!!

Why not use CSS Light system . Alot of us in NH have just got . you never have to take your hands off the handle bars . Just an idea . Rigmey

Just my 2 cents, I do know that it can get annoying being behind a guy that gives the "all clear" hand signal. On the same note, I've been behind guys that were last in their group, "add" the guys that have ridden up behind him in his signal. Now, I personally like it when I see hand signals from oncoming sledders. There are many times that I will go around a corner, or, crest a hill with even more caution because the sled I just passed signaled me that there was at least one more sled coming. I actually get mad when no one gives hand signals. Even though I know to stay as far to the right as possible, if I know someone else is coming, I'll be xtra cautious because I can't trust the guy coming the other way. I don't know if he's hammering down trying to catch up to his group. Usually, if someone gives an "all clear" sign,and there are more behind him, you usually can see them, also, the next guy will start a new set of signals. This to me is no big deal, and, I still like knowing how many are coming my way. jmo.

I agree for the most part, however 2 points of contention are as follows:

1. When I don't get a hand signal from you on the way by, I give you the Quebec original, world renound, number one hand signal, the one to which I refer does not involve the index either. I understand your philosophy about letting go of the bars with one hand, however as far as I am concerned if you are scared to let go for a sec when encountering oncoming vehicles, you must be either riding to fast, or not over to the right far enough. Granted there are a few circumstances that merrit exception to the hand signal rules.

2. NEVER PASS. It is plain stupid to think that because the guy in front has mirrors, he actually uses them. The fact that you are going to pass what could be a local, with your US registration clearly visible, just makes them say "Cris d'Americains!" even more. Chances are that sooner or later he, or she, will realize that someone is behind them, and they will let you by. Again there are a few exceptions to this rule, but for the most part I think it is better to wait 20 minutes to pass, than it is to spend one second on the left side of the trail, you said yourself, missiles coming the other way. And what is really going to happen when the leader of your group passes? Chances are that not all the rest of your group will make it around, so you end up waiting for them at the next intersection anyways. Especially late at night when all you can see is head light, is that me your buddy behind you, or is that the guy you just passed who is not in your group?

I think the 2 of us argued on this site last year about hand signals for oncoming traffic. I do see your point about letting go of the bars, but I feel that knowing how many are behind the leader when snow dust gets whipped up in the blind corners is priceless. They have a light system for mounting on the sled for signals. Red for more coming, green for good to go. If I though people understood what the light meant I would buy one.

I agree with the no pass for sure.Although i hate to follow a slow group what should be done is make sure they know you are there then Back Off.Just because the last guy in line has seen you doesn't mean the rest of his party has and it is not safe to pass and mix in plus it can cause a lot of confusion.If you show respect you will be treated with respect.As far as the hand signals as long as the last guy tells me he's last i am happy if you are following a group and see the last guy throw that sign that is what he means if you feel unsafe by following him then stop and take a piss and then continue.Just my opinion.

Awesome............Thinking safety is a good thing. To each their personal preference on how to get there.

The hand signal debate will last forever. If everyone is in control and on their side, personally I don't need or want them. Nothing iritates me more than multiple shaking oncoming riders riding nose to tail each more occupied with giving me some !@#$%# sign than staying in contol and out of my lane. :wacko:

Don't back down, all your rules are 100%.

Awesome............Thinking safety is a good thing. To each their personal preference on how to get there.

The hand signal debate will last forever. If everyone is in control and on their side, personally I don't need or want them. Nothing iritates me more than multiple shaking oncoming riders riding nose to tail each more occupied with giving me some !@#$%# sign than staying in contol and out of my lane. :wacko:

Im sorry you have to give me the #1 sign because I have cold hands and wear mittins. I always try to ride like there is a sled coming the opposite direction.

I agree with most but I've seen more than one knucklehead looking over his shoulder scolding one of my buddies meanwhile he's flying at me on my side of the trail. My philosophy is, ride as though over every hill or corner there will be someone coming at you and still I have been startled a few times a season because I got complacent. My group rides pretty aggressively but almost always correctly.

A couple more tips I would pass on would be to always wait at every intersection until you're sure the guy behind has seen which way you went. Works great, and keeps you in touch with your group.

When you lose contact with the rider behind you, pull over and wait a short, appropriate amount of time and if you have to slowly proceed to where he was seen last. Can't tell you how many times I've turned around and met my buddies coming at me at Mach1 trying to catch up.

Last one, watch out for high aluminum bridges......................... (See Picture to the left )

I have said it before and I will say it again, hand signals convey USELESS INFORMATION! When I pass the first sled I always expect more sleds coming and drive accordingly.

When you get the last sled routine and the next corner you meet the next group ??????????? Do as the man says, both hands on the bars and stay in your lane,

If you can safely signal then do it, if you cannot then keep both hands on the bars and steer right. I signal when I can, when I am in a dangerous situation sharp corner ect. I keep my hands on the bars. My wife never signals, she does not feel safe passing with one hand. i am always prepared for a number of sleds following the first one weather I get a hand signal or not.

I too agree 100%. I have attempted to, but I have never said it so well! This is written from experience.

Wow, what do you know, we are not alone Safety and intelligent riding for all.

I have said it before and I will say it again, hand signals convey USELESS INFORMATION! When I pass the first sled I always expect more sleds coming and drive accordingly.

When you get the last sled routine and the next corner you meet the next group ??????????? Do as the man says, both hands on the bars and stay in your lane,

Agree with dkarwh, people that ride based on hand signals are very foolish due to the always grossly ambiguous information. It is usually very hard to see the fingers, you never know if there are groups traveling close to each other, and I believe we should always ride "watching out for the other guy/expecting the unexpected". Speeds being what they are in QC also leave very little margin for error if one takes their hands "off the wheel". Pure foolishness as far as my $.02 goes -

Our group has always used Collett Communicators and these to handle allot of the situations Greg covered regarding intersections, breakdowns, road crossings, etc. Additionally, they can warn of an oncoming group or grooming equipment - but we never depend on this either.

30+ years of riding likes to stick with the "Expect the unexpected" and "Always watch out for the other guy" mantras! Safety is no accident!!

30+ years of riding likes to stick with the "Expect the unexpected" and "Always watch out for the other guy" mantras! Safety is no accident!!

I know it's a long time since this thread was started but I just found it and made my wife read all the posts as well. Thank's to all of you for such helpful info. Your all experienced riders and we two only get to enjoy this wonderful sport for a couple of weeks each year (our 5th this year) so any info we can get is great for us. We always try to use hand signals though Pat has discovered that this is not easy for her when attempting to take a corner at the same time (I say no more!).

We dearly wanted the Collett Communicators but wonder if Collett are no longer in business as their phones and e-mails are not answered. There was a note on their webside to say that they were moving but that has now gone. Does anyone know anything about them please?

Gary

I know it's a long time since this thread was started but I just found it and made my wife read all the posts as well. Thank's to all of you for such helpful info. Your all experienced riders and we two only get to enjoy this wonderful sport for a couple of weeks each year (our 5th this year) so any info we can get is great for us. We always try to use hand signals though Pat has discovered that this is not easy for her when attempting to take a corner at the same time (I say no more!).

We dearly wanted the Collett Communicators but wonder if Collett are no longer in business as their phones and e-mails are not answered. There was a note on their webside to say that they were moving but that has now gone. Does anyone know anything about them please?

Gary

Gary

had you checked this website?????

www.collettcommunicators.com

timbo

Gary

had you checked this website?????

www.collettcommunicators.com

timbo

Yes timbo, thats the one we have been trying to order from but even the on-line order form is not showing now. Pat has e-mailed Christine Collett early in August and got a reply from her but since then nothing. They had a note on the web-site saying they were moving but even that is gone now and they do not answer their phones either. A guy on the dootalk.com forum was having the same trouble too.

Just wondered if they were another company in trouble due to this recession. Shame we really wanted those communicators.

Gary

Yes timbo, thats the one we have been trying to order from but even the on-line order form is not showing now. Pat has e-mailed Christine Collett early in August and got a reply from her but since then nothing. They had a note on the web-site saying they were moving but even that is gone now and they do not answer their phones either. A guy on the dootalk.com forum was having the same trouble too.

Just wondered if they were another company in trouble due to this recession. Shame we really wanted those communicators.

Gary

I would guess that they are in the ramp-up mode getting product ready for the fall shows. that, coupled with their relocation probably has them "not manning the phones". hopefully, they are not out of biz.

Try em again after labor day (US). hopefully you will get thru. communicators are a real safety aid on the trail. if you still cannot get in touch with collett, try Chatterbox.

good luck

timbo

I would guess that they are in the ramp-up mode getting product ready for the fall shows. that, coupled with their relocation probably has them "not manning the phones". hopefully, they are not out of biz.

Try em again after labor day (US). hopefully you will get thru. communicators are a real safety aid on the trail. if you still cannot get in touch with collett, try Chatterbox.

good luck

timbo

I will keep trying them and keep fingers crossed as we really would feel better having them than not

Gary

The list still works for us. If there are a few items you like to keep you safer, take them and leave the rest.

hand signals are flat out dangerous!!if there is a groomer,ditch,broken sled or any other opstacle I will be the guy to give a signal for sure. just ride your sled as if there is a sled around every corner and we all will be just fine. doing 5000 miles a year the most scary times have been the guy coming towards me with one hand on the bars.believe me it has happened !!! please lets use hand signals when there is good reason to.my kids nieces nephews etc. all take the safety class and instructers are no longer pushing the issue.safety first !!! btw the guy shaking his mad fist will get a friendly wave from me