vt_bluyamaha54

We were there last week. 5, 35 and 55 were all good except for about a 40mi section of 5 on either side of Montmagny. Brian's mileage estimate is pretty close. We have left outside St Georges and gone to RDL in a day and it was about 260mi. It is another another 40mi+ to TM and then 80-100 to Rimouski from RDL from so depending on what time you left TM, you would be several hours after dark. Could it be done? Maybe. Should you really do it? Probably not - and here's why: 1) You have no idea what conditions you are going to find. I have seen all of the trails discussed in this thread vary from tabletop to truly awful at various times - and that includes TQ35. To say you can easily average 75 miles per hour - even on the RR beds - (in my opinion) is crazy because to average that speed you will have to go even faster. There are road crossings and bridges on 35 and (my opinion again) going that fast is an accident waiting to happen. I have seen both deer and moose on 35 too so call me a sissy but I think if you are going over 60 I'll just pray for you and leave it at that. You also will likely encounter radar on TQ5 anywhere between RDL + Rimouski. We have seen them almost everytime we've come through there and that seems to be a favorite for them. 2) Many gas stations in the smaller towns close around 6PM and you are going to need to stop at one or more of these to be able to make this trip. Also, FYI some of the clubhouses are closing early and may not be serving food during the week - or only serving for reduced hours. Good luck. Be safe

Nice report and great pictures Andy! Definitely beautiful Feb 22-24 (Tue - Thu) with some of the bluest skies of the winter. We were riding on the south side of the St. Lawrence 2/19 - 2/24 and also found low traffic and some signage issues. Not sure if it is due to the late start to the season, the uncertainty caused by the farmers issue or a combination but most of the (few) sleds we did see had Quebec registrations - very few US. Most of the places we stopped commented that business was way off also. Many of the clubhouses close early and/or stopped serving food earlier than in previous years. (Albertville's hours changed to close @1600 during the week) Some have stopped serving food at all during the week. Secondary trail signs were generally missing from intersections so if you weren't familiar, knew for sure from looking at your map what it was, or had GPS, it was sometimes a bit of a craps shoot. Like you, I absolutely want to support the clubs and business and sincerely hope the businesses come out whole on the other side of this. It is absolutely the BEST trail system in the world and we are all incredably lucky to have the privalege of using it.

I am always sad when I read something like this. February is "high season" in Gaspesie - typically w/lots of traffic. I know the weather was almost perfect during the time mentioned because I was there too. I don't think there was ALLOT of traffic because I didn't see it and everyone we talked to said it is down. The fact that you traveled with a guide makes me think you probably traveled the typical Sun - Sat times and may be some of the issue. We have always found that starting later in the week and/or going the other direction from the groups that leave RDL, Rimouski, or Matane is better. The idea is to be far enough behind that the trails get groomed after the traffic passes. I certainly understand your disappointment but encourage you to try again another year! I must add that we had a very different experience. Two of us left Feb 19 (Sat) from the C-A region (Beauceville), travelled through BSL and into Gaspesie. We stayed in Amqui so we could explore the lower end and some of the trails in Groomer's area. (We've done the Gaspe several times and weren't interested in going around again) The worst section of trail was TQ5 on either side of Montmagny. There were a few areas where it was a bit choppier in the corners than we are used to but I would still give our 1000 miles 9.6+/10. (Groomer's section of TQ5 and any of the local trails we took in the Albertville area were 10/10) On the return, we dropped down to TQ55 outside Tourville for a different route back. We left Thu before the storm. The attached picture is typical of what we found Feb 22-24 and was taken about 70km from Amqui on TQ5W

Sorry Groomer, we decided to ride beyond the FCB and when we got back to the clubhouse it was almost 1540, Didn't realize they close @1600 so decided not to disturb your nap - haha! I know about sleep when grooming! Keep up the good work and thank you for the hospitality. Au revoir for now.

Yes, I would say Montmagny is a safe city and you could park either there or at Motel 232 - which is right off the exit. I believe they charge a fee but I am not sure what it is - sorry. They have security cameras and there are usually quite a few rigs there.

Thanks for your report Karl. Sounds like conditions around Cabano have improved because a little while ago someone posted that the area was junk. I think we are going to leave from the same area you did, go to RDL then to Amqui and ride the trails in Groomer's area. I don't see it being worth it to go to 595 and 597 in Gaspe since both those routes have problems this year. Too bad :o

Another member, Actionjack, rode that area leaving from the US side. Here is the link to the topic: http://www.quebecrider.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1707 I think the conditions are the best they have been in about 3 years(?)

Not sure where you are getting the reports from but FCMQ is saying only FAIR for trails in that sector as of 1/27?? I know that NE VT also has less snow (generally 8-10 on the ground) than I do here in eastern central VT (14-20"). I groomed last night and there are areas in the deep woods that we don't have more than about 6" of cover. Most of the storms so far this winter have been 'southern storms' - that is why so much of QC is suffering a bit from lack of snow. Also want to point out that even with good conditions, Derby/Stanstead to southern edge of C-A region is 200-300mi (depending how far east or west you vector from south) so it is not a day trip. Trails are good but the real good trails (what most of us think of as "Quebec-trails") don't begin until outside Thetford Mines or St Georges. You might want to consider trailering to Montmagny? If you do that you can take great day trips and that is also a 'safe' area to park. It is a tough situation I know when you drive so far. Lac Etchemin is another destination possibility I would have made until a couple of years ago. They have gotten pricey and have turned some off. I think you can find posts about the area over at HCS? Just my $.02 -

Hi Jack - I live in Vermont and have begun trips from the Derby, VT area to QC many times over the years. I would caution you that for the last several years, trail conditions have been poor in the Eastern Townships - or the trails have not opened at all. That area can be a "dry slot" that misses storms that give coverage to trails in N. VT and surrounding areas but misses them. After crossing at Stanstead QC (closest to Derby) - or at Norton - you can literally run out of snow a short distance north of the border. The snow seems to build up again as you get close to Thetford Mines or St. Georges QC - which you probably know is at the southern edge of the C-A area. I would definitely look at FCMQ for their conditions before getting too far into your planning on this or you might be stuck on this side of the Border. On the other hand, if there is sufficient snow, the trails are generally good. I recommend taking #521 rather than TQ 55 to reach C-A. It is usually in better shape and even though it is a 'secondary' trail, we have found we make better time on it. You will rejoin 55 outside Cookshire, hit 65 for a short time before rejoining 55 again. Be Safe. Happy Riding!

Thanks Karl. A favorite area for me too and I am surprised given what the C-A website currently has posted. Generally when their areas are colored in 'green', the riding is very good/excellent. Maybe they are trying to boost ridership in what has been a late-starting season featuring much less snow than usual plus lingering economic issues coupled with a tourist unfriendly exchange rate??

I think you are right - 'operator error' / "trouble in the seat". All the STEEP trails around MSP are groomed w/Gilberts - so what could the problem be?? ha ha I thought the club was thinking of selling/trading the BR? Lots of "trips to the doctor" past couple of seasons. Glad you are 'keeping busy'. Thanks for great trails.

Sounds like a good start to your season, Steven. My quick math says 800+ miles for the 4 days but as you said, the good times with good friends are priceless. Thanks for sharing the pics and trip notes! Cheers,

Groomer - As always, you have provided valuable information to us all! I personally ride in this area allot and it will be VERYgood to have this issue fixed! None of us wanted to ride on the lawns of the houses along St Charles but also could not ride in dirt for so long a distance either! - It is always good to get off roads that must be shared with cars anyway!

Ever notice there are always more engine failures early in the season? #1 reason is lack of maintenance. Even those who are faithful about cleaning up and end-of-season, storage with stabilizer, etc. can have a problem. Why? Fuel these days goes bad in about 30 days. Stabilizer helps but is no guarantee. Did you know that stabilizer also has a shelf life? It too goes bad after about a year so make it a habit to check the date code or write a purchase date on it. New 2 strokes have little tolerance for lean mixtures and can experience them due to even small vanish/"gunk" forming in jets during the off-season. Some dealers will replace jets in sleds more than a couple of years old that look suspect for just this reason. Another common failure is "flecks" of bearing plating coming off of roller bearings because of conditions during off season storage. These pieces find their way around the 2 stroke crankcase and ruin engines too. It is hard to say why the engine failed because none of us saw it apart. It would also be interesting to know if others in the riding party got fuel at the same time? If others didn't have a failure, I would likely rule out the gas. I am not saying ethanol is never at fault in engine failures of 2 strokes but there are usually other contributing factors when there is a failure. Ethanol is hygroscopic - meaning it attracts water. This can be more of a factor depending on the environment. Plastic tanks in snowmobiles are less of a problem than metal. Certain plastics and rubber(prior to about 2006) may be sensitive to gasoline with 10 or more percent ethanol. Ethanol is a powerful solvent and can cause dirt, gums, and other contaminants to enter the engine. Never add additional de-icer. This is because if you have a tank of 10% ethanol, adding more alcohol definitely will cause more problems with phase separation and octane rating. And YES I was told that gasoline in Quebec generally has 10% ethanol.

After riding in Quebec for many years, I have come to have a HUGE respect for WIND. The wind can transform a small snow storm (10-15cm / 4-6") into extremely challenging riding. If there is more snow, it can create drifts you would have to see to believe and can make trails impassible until they are broken open by grooming equipment. Most of you that have ridden in Gaspesie can likely relate to this. Two or three years ago, my riding partner and I parked our machines after breaking trail most of the day. The wind was blowing steadily around 30 and gusting to 40+. It was close to dark and we were about 20mi from our destination for the night.We walked to a grove of trees to get out of the wind and started a fire to keep warm. I had only a weak cell signal but called ahead to our destination for the night to say we were going to hunker down here and not to worry about us. I knew where we were and wasn't too worried but I knew that neither of us was in any shape to dig snowmobiles loaded with saddlebags and all our gear out of any more drifts or get them unstuck if we got off the trail! We had a very hard time keeping the fire fed as the wind was like a blacksmith's bellows. It consumed the wood almost as fast as we added it - and this was in an area partially sheltered! After about 4 hours, we saw lights coming toward us. It was the groomer! We left the grove to meet him and waited until he turned around. When we went back to the machines, the wind had carved away all the snow around them and they appeared to be "on pedestals" - about 3.5' above the ground! We got them started and followed in the tracks of the groomer back to a local farm where we left our machines for the night. The groomer operator and his partner gave us a ride to our hotel. All of this was the result of about a foot of snow! BEWARE THE WIND IN QUEBEC!!

Yes, there is a section that was taken off the power lines a couple of years ago and rerouted along a dirt road before rejoining the "old trail". (It is right after you climb the hill outside St Georges on TQ55E.) That section of road has been problematic at best and this year's low snow conditions have left it more dirt than snow. I was through there about 2 weeks ago and it was AWFUL!

Don't think you will have to worry as much about the snow as much as the fact that it is warm. Look at: The Weather Network I have used their forecasts in the past and had very good luck out to about 10 days. The clubs may not be able to groom until temps get back down - looks like about Wed/Thurs in St Georges.

Especially for bag trips in Quebec, the 4-strokes are superb. Just think - you don't have to carry any oil! As someone said earlier, the ethanol doesn't seem to agree with the 2-strokes. There are definitely more engine failures and the E-techs aren't immune.

Not much snow - YIPES! Groomer - or anyone - do you know if this is for the "new trail" they were talking about building that will go into Perce'?

Some break worse than others when they break though Yes, any sled can have problems but I believe if you take all the Yamahas and compare them with an equal number of the other brands by adding up the miles, then adding up all the repairs, the Yamahas numbers would speak for themselves by being low on the repair side while being high on the total miles side. There are allot of Yammi 4strokes out there with 10, 20, 30, and 40K+ miles that have had "0" engine repairs and very little in the way of repairs - other than normal wear items. The relay issue you cite was identified as a vendor issue and the replacement relay solved the issue(s) 100%. That relay was a new part the first year of fuel injection on the 4 cylinder (RX/Apex) engine.

Nice pics + story Rick! You'll probably find these trips highly addictive - as most of us do!! If you don't mind my asking, what program(s) did you use to create the presentation? P.S. Thank you for voting for Scott Brown. Here's to hoping he makes the difference we all need now.

This is a good site to use for an idea of true exchange rates: http://www.xe.com/ I don't carry allot of Canadian cash; just enough for incidentals like lunch in clubhouses, and places that don't take cards. If you have an ATM card, you can use it at any of the Desjardins and get Canadian cash at the same exchange as posted that day on most exchanges.Using the credit card gives current exchange and I have a card that doesn't charge a "foreign transaction fee". - This has always worked for me anyway

Buying where you ride supports the local club - the one who grooms the trails where you will be riding. I believe the club gets about 60% of the pass fee (?) The exchange is $1USD=$1.02CAD right now so I wouldn't spend allot of time exchanging money. Most places will take US $$ at face value. We usually use credit cards for fuel, lodging, etc but you will likely need cash for purchasing the pass, small meals in clubhouses/restaurants and the few places that don't take cards.

Here is what it says on the VAST web site regarding the accessing the trail from an adjacent state/province where you are already registered: "(e) Special provisions for certain areas of operation; Massachusetts; New Hampshire; New York; Province of Quebec. A legally registered snowmobile, from any adjacent state or Province which provides the same reciprocity to Vermont, may enter this state by using a portion of the statewide snowmobile trail system, a public right-of-way open to snowmobiles, or private land that is posted open to snowmobiles, for a distance not to exceed three miles for the sole purpose of accessing the closest food, fuel, lodging and repair services, and, at a point three miles from the state line, trails shall be posted "VT TMA Required Beyond This Point". In Addison, Bennington and Rutland counties, licensed snowmobiles from reciprocating jurisdictions may operate from the New York border to Poultney village via corridor trail 4A (Delaware Hudson Rail Trail); from the New York border in Pawlet in the north to the New York border in the south in the town of Rupert (13 miles) along corridor trail 4; and from Lake Champlain at Benson Landing to the town of Benson via the local snowmobile trail." You can call them to check: 802-229-0005. We have left from the Border Motel before but that was when it had other owners. Can't comment if they are OK with parking there if you aren't staying there. There is also a Super 8 just down the street from the Border Motel. That doesn't resolve your TMA issue though With all the hassle, I think I would just park and leave from Stanstead. Marcel (Marty) is a good guy and I have bought passes from him in the past. . . . or you could drive further into Canada

Trails on this side of the river are very good and I almost prefer them. I live in VT and have left from this side but yes, you would need a VAST TMA to do that. If you want to cut your drive, the president of the Stanstead QC club has a motel in Stanstead - which is the 1st town after you cross the border on I91. His name is Marty Fatieux (sp). There is a gs station there w/the Imperial Motel and you can get your Canadian permit there also. Thetford Mines has had theft problems on and off for years but the Balmoral might be OK. I've stayed there but never left a vehicle there. The clubhouse in Beauceville is safe. No corral but there is always a guy there 7x24 and i have never heard of any problems there. Of course there isn't a place to sleep but you can get food/drink and head off. Quite a few guys from Maine start there. Montmagny has at least 2 good places close to the RT20 interchange (motels) but not sure if you want to go that far east??