Good News from Saguenay City

[Saguenay Bill]

A good friend from Saguenay City just emailed me with good news. The following is his message to me.

The Mayor of Saguenay City announced a signed agreement for 3 years with the farmers. He stated that this is the first time in all Quebec Province that such agreement is signed. This will cost $200,000 per year to the city but will allow everyone to focus on delivering better service. This is great news for the Saguenay. Let people come around, we are ready....

[Mid Range]

I wonder what the FCMQ thinks about this agreement. I just hope this is not a can of worms.There's an old saying that says.... if it's good for kitty, it's good for puppy. Now let's wait and see what will happen for the rest of the province.Beleive me..we will hear from many many farmers across the Province.But I do understand the farmers gave a lot in the past without earning anything in return.I guess times are changing....

here's the french links

http://fr.canoe.ca/archives/infos/regional/2011/09/20110907-141107.html

[Bill]

LET IT SNOW!!!

[Mid Range]

We are already seeing dissatisfaction from Lac St-Jean area.... I am afraid this will have a domino effect throughout the Province.

Sorry for the french links

http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/saguenay-lac/2011/09/08/003-sentiers-motoneiges-reactions.shtml

Des clubs de motoneigistes du Lac-Saint-Jean dénoncent les indemnités offertes par Saguenay aux agriculteurs pour permettre le passage des motoneiges sur leurs terres.

La Ville de Saguenay a annoncé mercredi qu'elle allouerait 200 000 $ par année au cours des trois prochains hivers pour dédommager les agriculteurs. Ceux qui accepteront de laisser passer les motoneiges recevront 900 $ du kilomètre.

L'entente permettra aux amateurs de motoneige d'accéder aux monts Valin, directement à partir de la ville de Québec.

Selon les clubs de motoneigistes, Saguenay crée un dangereux précédent dans la région.

Le président sortant du Regroupement des clubs de motoneigistes du Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, Jacques Goulet, craint une escalade si les agriculteurs jeannois s'inspirent du modèle saguenéen.

« Les municipalités du Lac-Saint-Jean n'ont pas autant de moyens que Saguenay. Ça peut mettre la pagaille », croit M. Goulet.

Le président de la Fédération de l'Union des producteurs agricoles (UPA) au Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, André Fortin, partage l'opinion du représentant des motoneigistes. « Ça fait un modèle, dit-il. Les autres producteurs vont voir ça et c'est sûr qu'ils vont mettre de la pression pour être dédommagés. »

Sentiers permanents

Le président du comité régional qui travaille à mettre en place un réseau de sentiers permanent, Michel Larouche, mesure encore mal l'effet de l'entente intervenue à Saguenay sur le projet de Québec. « Il est trop tôt pour le dire, souligne-t-il. Il est important de rappeler qu'il y a une volonté gouvernementale de rendre les sentiers permanents. »

Selon le préfet de la municipalité régionale de comté (MRC) Maria-Chapdelaine, Jean-Pierre Boivin, plusieurs municipalités n'ont pas l'argent pour imiter la Ville de Saguenay.

M. Boivin demande l'aide financière de Québec. « Il n'est pas question que la MRC ou que les municipalités dédommagent les agriculteurs pour le passage chez eux », réplique-t-il.

Le préfet de la MRC Maria-Chapdelaine dit tout de même comprendre le geste de Saguenay, qui veut sauver son moteur touristique hivernal.

Gervais Coulombe, directeur général de Tourisme Alma et fervent défenseur de la recherche d’une solution permanente à la problématique des sentiers de motoneige et de VTT sur les terres privées et publiques est estomaqué. En apprenant la décision de Ville Saguenay de compenser à hauteur de 200 000 $ par année les agriculteurs du secteur pour les sentiers de motoneige, Gervais Coulombe qualifie « d’art de diviser la région… avec toute les conséquences que ça va avoir. »

Lors d’un entretien à son bureau au lendemain de cette annonce très médiatisée, Gervais Coulombe cachait mal sa déception face à cet autre coup dur pour la solidarité régionale alors que le maire Jean Tremblay a une nouvelle fois agit seul dans le dossier, sans consulter personne tout en créant un précédent qui aura un impact sur l’ensemble de la province.

Le directeur général de Tourisme Alma Lac-St-Jean ne mâchait pas ses mots pour qualifier la façon d’agir du premier magistrat de Saguenay et surtout, son manque flagrant de consultation alors qu’aucun autre maire, ni la Conférence régionale des élus pas plus que l’Association touristique au Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean n’étaient au fait de cette démarche et de l’annonce faire mercredi.

Dans une mise en scène typique du maire de Saguenay, sur une ferme du secteur, Jean Tremblay a annoncé qu'une entente était intervenue avec les agriculteurs pour régler les droits de passage des sentiers de motoneige.

L'entente d'une durée de 3 ans a été conclue avec les propriétaires des terres utilisées à des fins récréotouristiques de la motoneige, qui sont en majorité des agriculteurs. Saguenay possède près de 500 kilomètres de sentiers de motoneige sur son territoire et près de 200 kilomètres seront touchés par cette entente. Cela représente un montant de 200 000 $ pour chacune des trois années de l'entente.

La compensation qui prévoit le versement d'un montant de 900 $ par kilomètre en moyenne, sera assumée par Promotion Saguenay à même un fonds dédié.

La prochaine saison de motoneige à Saguenay est maintenant assurée. L'accord va permettre aux motoneigistes d'accéder aux Monts-Valin à partir de la ville de Québec, ce qui constitue un apport économique majeur pendant la période hivernale alors que la pratique de la motoneige représente pour la région des retombées économiques de quelque 55 M $.

Dangereux précédent

Selon Gervais Coulombe, l’annonce de cette entente avec les agriculteurs de Saguenay représente un dangereux précédent car tous les autres agriculteurs de la région et d’ailleurs au Québec vont l’utiliser afin de réclamer le même traitement.

« Au départ, ça ne règle pas le dossier car ça concerne le secteur entre Québec et Saguenay. Qu’en est-t-il pour les autres régions comme la Mauricie, Chaudière-Appalaches ou la Montérégie ? Sur la moindre parcelle de terrain privé où passe un sentier de motoneige, les gens vont réclamer la même chose », lance Gervais Coulombe.

Il donne en exemple le secteur Lac-St-Jean-Est qui compte un peu plus de 500 kilomètres de sentiers dont quelque 75 % sot sur des terres privées. En faisant un calcul rapide de 400 kilomètres par 900 $ du kilomètre, on en arrive à une somme astronomique de 360 000 $ que les Clubs de motoneige n’ont pas.

« Au lieu de développer une stratégie régionale pour avoir l’air intelligent, on se fout de l’ATR qui dirige le dossier, on se fout de la CRÉ, on se fout des partenaires et on se fout de la région », de poursuivre Gervais Coulombe.

Ce dernier craint maintenant l’effet domino de cette décision sur le reste de la province et dans bien d’autres domaines comme les pistes de VTT par exemple.

Ce soir (jeudi) le Comité spécial mis sur pied pour trouver une solution permanente aux sentiers de motoneige et VTT avait déjà prévu une réunion de travail pour discuter de la prochaine saison, des droits de passage et des projets d’amélioration des sentiers via le programme de subvention Volet II.

« C’est certain que notre agenda va être bousculé avec cette annonce et que les gens vont vouloir s’exprimer sur la question et analyser les conséquences à court et long terme » de conclure Gervais Coulombe.

[smclelan]

I was afraid of the precedent this could be setting when I first read it. Hopefully the government will step in and stop this before it gets out of control. Organized snowmobiling can not support this sort of compensation. Next thing you know every landowner with a trail on their property will be looking for a piece of the pie.

Edited September 12, 2011 by smclelan

[Mid Range]

I was afraid of the pressident this could be setting when I first read it. Hopefully the government will step in and stop this before it gets out of control. Organized snowmobiling can not support this sort of compensation. Next thing you know every landowner with a trail on their property will be looking for a piece of the pie.

Exactly Steven....we both have the same point of view.You just hit the nail right on the head... nothing more to add.I don't want to imagine all the consequences this type of agreement will create.

[schooter]

Translation:

Of Snowmobile Clubs of Lac-Saint-Jean denounce Saguenay benefits offered by farmers to allow the passage of snowmobiles on their land.

The City of Saguenay announced Wednesday that it would allocate $ 200 000 per year over the next three winters to compensate farmers. Those who agree to let snowmobiles receive $ 900 per kilometer.

The agreement will allow snowmobilers to access the Monts Valin, directly from Quebec City.

According to the snowmobile clubs, Saguenay sets a dangerous precedent in the region.

The outgoing president of the Coalition of snowmobile clubs in the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, Jacques Goulet, fears an escalation if farmers Jeannois Saguenay based on the model.

"The municipalities of Lac-Saint-Jean are not as means Saguenay. It can mess up, "says Mr. Goulet.

The President of the Federation of the Union des producteurs agricoles (UPA) in the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, André Fortin, agreed with the representative of snowmobilers. "It's a model, he said. Other producers will see this and it is sure they will put pressure to be compensated. "

Permanent trails

The President of the Regional Committee working to set up a permanent trail system, Michel Larouche, still not able effect of the agreement on the project in Saguenay Quebec. "It is too early to tell, he says. It is important to remember that there is a government's desire to make permanent paths. "

According to the prefect of the regional county municipality (MRC) Maria-Chapdelaine, Jean-Pierre Boivin, many municipalities lack the money to imitate the City of Saguenay.

Mr. Boivin request financial assistance from Quebec. "There is no question that the MRC and the municipalities compensate farmers for the passage home," he replied.

The Prefect of the MRC Maria-Chapdelaine said still understand the gesture of Saguenay, who wants to save his engine winter tourism.

Gervais Coulombe, CEO of Tourisme Alma and strong advocate of finding a permanent solution to the problem of snowmobile trails and ATV trails on private land and public is shocked. On hearing the decision to Ville Saguenay offset up to $ 200 000 per year for farmers in the area snowmobile trails, Gervais Coulombe describes as "art to divide the region ... with all the consequences it will have. "

In an interview in his office the day after the highly publicized announcement, Gervais Coulombe could not hide his disappointment at this another blow to regional solidarity while Mayor John Smith has once again acted alone in the record, without consulting person while creating a precedent that will impact the entire province.

The Director General of Tourism Alma Lac-St-Jean did not mince words to describe the behavior of the chief magistrate of Saguenay and above all, his blatant lack of consultation so that no other mayor or the regional conference of elected not more than the Tourism Association in the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean was aware of this process and make the announcement Wednesday.

In a scene typical of the mayor of Saguenay, on the farm sector, John Smith announced that an agreement had been reached with farmers to address the rights of way snowmobile trails.

The agreement for a period of three years was reached with the owners of land used for recreational snowmobiling, who are mostly farmers. Saguenay has nearly 500 km of snowmobile trails within its territory and about 200 km will be affected by this agreement. This represents an amount of $ 200 000 for each of the three years of the agreement.

Compensation that provides for payment of an amount of $ 900 per kilometer on average, will be assumed by Promotion Saguenay at a fund dedicated.

The next snowmobile season in Saguenay is now assured. The agreement will allow snowmobilers to access the Monts-Valin from Quebec City, which is a major economic contribution during the winter while snowmobiling in the region represents an economic impact of about 55 M $.

Dangerous precedent

According to Gervais Coulombe, announcing the agreement with farmers in Saguenay is a dangerous precedent for all other farmers in the region and elsewhere in Quebec will use to claim the same treatment.

"Initially, it does not solve the issue because it concerns the area between Quebec City and Saguenay. What does it for other regions like the Mauricie, Chaudière-Appalaches and Montérégie? On any parcel of private land where a snowmobile trail passes, people will demand the same thing, "says Gervais Coulombe.

He gives the example of the Lac-St-Jean-Est, which has just over 500 kilometers of trails, some 75% fool on private land. By doing a quick calculation of 400 km per $ 900 of kilometers, we come to a staggering $ 360 000 Snowmobile Clubs that have not.

"Instead of developing a regional strategy to look intelligent, it does not care who runs the ATR file, it does not care about the CRE, we do not care partners and we care about the region," to continue Gervais Coulombe.

It now fears the domino effect of this decision on the rest of the province and in many other areas such as mountain bike trails for example.

Tonight (Thursday) the Special Committee formed to find a permanent solution to snowmobile trails and ATV had already scheduled a meeting to discuss the upcoming season, and rights of way improvement projects through the trails Phase II grant program.

"It is clear that our agenda will be pushed with this announcement and that people will want to speak on the issue and analyze the short-and long-term," concluded Gervais Coulombe

[timbo]

I wonder what the FCMQ thinks about this agreement. I just hope this is not a can of worms.There's an old saying that says.... if it's good for kitty, it's good for puppy. Now let's wait and see what will happen for the rest of the province.Beleive me..we will hear from many many farmers across the Province.But I do understand the farmers gave a lot in the past without earning anything in return.I guess times are changing....

here's the french links

http://fr.canoe.ca/archives/infos/regional/2011/09/20110907-141107.html

It's an ill wind that blows out of Saguenay from this issue. The ramifications of this could be devistating throughout the entire Province. Unfortunately, many of the other touristic regions in Quebec lack the assets to alocate to an allowance to the agricultural community to "buy" rights-of-way across farm fields. Watch for the domino effect. Not a good thing. What's with these guys in Saguenay?? Not many other areas have the resources of Alma, Chicoutimi, Jonquiere, etc. From slowly wading thru the release's (my French is not as good as I'd like it to be) it seems that they just popped this out of the chute without any consultation with the other snowmobiling interests in the Province. This is not good. The only way from this not to turn into an unpleasant situation is for the Provincial government to get involved, asap, and mediate this whole matter.

And we though last year's embargo by the agricultural community was bad????

Whooooaaa Nellie.

timbo

[iceman]

Nothing good will come of this. Except if you are a tourist from wherever and just want to go to mt. Valin from Quebec city. VERY SELFISH move by that mayor and the clubs involved. I say buy passes from anywhere else but there. We can send a message right to the clubs pockets.

Edited September 12, 2011 by iceman

[Mid Range]

Next weekend (Sept 16-17) is the annual congress in Rivière du loup....beleive me this agreement will come on the table.This gentleman never thought a second what this selfish agreement might create at the four corner of the Province....

Edited September 12, 2011 by Mid Range

[iceman]

Seems like they wanted to start this trouble so they can have all the snowmobilers for their area and screw the rest of the province cause they do not care. Unreal, two steps forward then three back. we are in trouble.

[smclelan]

Seems like they wanted to start this trouble so they can have all the snowmobilers for their area and screw the rest of the province cause they do not care. Unreal, two steps forward then three back. we are in trouble.

I can't imagine this was done by the city on purpose to cause hardships to other areas. The financial gain in having snowmobiles in your area is huge, I suspect they were trying to help their local businesses in the off season. Unfortuneatly I don't believe they really thought this through. Once you show there is money there what is to stop the farmers from asking for $1500/ kilometer next time it is renewed??

[scorpionbowl]

I agree with Bill, this seems like good news. A positive dialog and solution that leads to the trails staying open. So everyone else does it too...what will that do, add $20 to a trail pass?

If you want to complain, how about the +1% Quebec sales tax increase in Jan/2011 and yet another +1% increase coming in Jan/2012 [14.975% total]. Or the +1 cent per liter fuel tax increase per year, for 4 years, begining April/2010.

Next you can complain about these "clean" engines required by the governments. That's about a $1500 tax everytime you buy a sled, plus another tax of $1500 when they melt-down every 7500 miles.

I've also heard about a future yamaha weight tax for excessive trail damage as a result of intentional design-flaws detrimental to the trail system...

[smclelan]

I agree with Bill, this seems like good news. A positive dialog and solution that leads to the trails staying open. So everyone else does it too...what will that do, add $20 to a trail pass?

If you want to complain, how about the +1% Quebec sales tax increase in Jan/2011 and yet another +1% increase coming in Jan/2012 [14.975% total]. Or the +1 cent per liter fuel tax increase per year, for 4 years, begining April/2010.

Next you can complain about these "clean" engines required by the governments. That's about a $1500 tax everytime you buy a sled, plus another tax of $1500 when they melt-down every 7500 miles.

I've also heard about a future yamaha weight tax for excessive trail damage as a result of intentional design-flaws detrimental to the trail system...

$900/kilometer X 33,000 kilometers of trail in PQ = $29,700,000.00 Spread this over 85,000 trail permits per year is $350.00 additional dollars to the price of each trail pass!

[iceman]

Those off trail riders might have the right idea, this is getting crazy. Excessive trail damage that's a real gem there.What about the guys who every corner feel the need to punch it out and tear the trail to shit. Thats damage.Its clear that the main focus of mr mayor whoever is european tourists ( riding right up the middle of the trail ) and keeping them in his area.If i never rode mt valin again it would not phase me in the least. Yes its beautiful and it gets lots of snow. But there are many other rides that are simply amazing (scorpionbowl knows) as many others here too know.I think it would be awesome if they let the european groups ride only from Quebec to mt valin, then i would be able to avoid that mess for sure.I remember riding to onitchaway when no one knew what that was, those were the good old days. Now every tom, dick and harry is up there and unless its a weekday you need your head examined to ride there, way too many sleds. Old Forge Quebec, aka mt valin.

[iceman]

As far as the passes go i would pay whatever they ask as long as they get their act together and make a permanent network. I live to sled.You can not put a price on the joy i get from riding. Its expensive to be a snowmobiler, budget is not a word that co exists with riding. If the price of a permit, whether its 300 or 500 is too much then you need to find another hobby.

[scorpionbowl]

$900/kilometer X 33,000 kilometers of trail in PQ = $29,700,000.00 Spread this over 85,000 trail permits per year is $350.00 additional dollars to the price of each trail pass!

Are you drinking with Groomer already? That's over three years, plus all kms won't qualify. I could have used your help in my last divorce, lol...

[iceman]

I think the FCMQ needs to work for the permanent trail network. Between Hydro-Quebec lines and pipelines and not to mention all the unplowed summer roads they could work out something. Not everywhere it will be possibe for sure but hey its a start.

[Mid Range]

Saguenay decision was unpopular at the FCMQ congress last weekend

Point of view from Robert Bilodeau(FCMQ administrator for Saguenay- Lac St-Jean)

Sorry for the french link.

http://www.lelacstjean.com/Actualités/2011-09-19/article-2753072/Motoneige-Ca-va-prendre-une-structure-regionale-solide-Robert-Bilodeau/1

La décision de Saguenay mal accueillie au congrès. Robert Bilodeau, le représentant régional des 16 clubs de motoneige, revient à sa vision de départ : il va falloir une structure régionale solide pour gérer l’ensemble du dossier de la motoneige et les millions $ qui en découlent. Mais, la récente décision de Saguenay de faire cavalier seul, complique grandement les choses.

De retour du congrès provincial de la Fédération des clubs de motoneige, le représentant du Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean a grandement senti une tension sur le plancher du congrès et la grogne de la part des autres clubs à travers la province qui doivent maintenant composer avec une décision arbitraire de la Ville de Saguenay qui a fixé à quelque 900 $ du kilomètre la compensation à verser aux agriculteurs.

« Le hic, c’est qu’entre Montréal et Saguenay ou Québec et Saguenay, il y a des milliers de terres privées et de droits de passage. À combien devra-t-on les compenser et si un groupe décide de bloquer le passage sur ses terres car il juge que la compensation n’est pas suffisante ? », questionne Robert Bilodeau.

En mai dernier, cet ancien président de l’Association touristique régionale acceptait le mandat de prendre la direction du comité mis sur pied pour répo0ndre à la demande du ministre des Transports du Québec.

Le mandat est d’identifier les problèmes de droits de passage, les endroits où il faudra investir. L’idée est de fournir au ministre une situation réelle de la situation.

« Là, j’ai deux clubs qui ont réglé leur problème mais j’.en ai 14 qui n’ont pas de solution », constate amèrement Robert Bilodeau.

Certes, ce dernier croit à la nécessité de la solidarité régionale dans ce dossier même si présentement, elle est grandement ébréchée.

Robert Bilodeau estime, dans sa vision des choses, que l’on devra sans doute passer de 16 clubs à un club par MRC avec une structure régionale articulée qui parlera au nom de la motoneige.

« Présentement, on demande à des bénévoles de gérer les millions qui découlent su sport de la motoneige alors que leur mandat est de s’assurer de la sécurité et de l’entretien de leurs sentiers. Prenons exemple sur la Véloroute. On a créé une structure régionale d’encadrement et ça fonctionne parfaitement. Pour la motoneige, il faudra en venir à la même chose avec une seule voix représentative de cette industrie », souligne le responsable des clubs.

Plus que jamais, ce sport est maintenant à la merci des propriétaires de terres alors que chaque petit propriétaire est en droit de demander une compensation pour donner le droit de circuler sur son terrain.

Sous eu, le comité que préside Robert Bilodeau doit d’ailleurs rencontrer les instances régionales de l’UPA pour discuter du dossier.

« Par rapport au mandat que le ministre des Transports nous a confié, on va livrer la marchandise. On a la plus belle région pour la motoneige et on devrait être les mieux organisés. On doit se reprendre en main régionalement et se donner une structure, une instance régionale pour gérer les crises et appliquer les différents programmes d’aide. Ça presse », de lancer en conclusion Robert Bilodeau.

[Greg du Vermont]

Take a little time with google or bing translate to get a better understanding of this. Mr Bilodeau is a dedicated, intelligent, well thought man who has been a friend of mine for many years. The compensation initiaive of the Saguenay club may be controversal and painful for other regions and clubs in the short term, but it will certainly move (force) the issue and funding of trail permanance and year to year trail security in a forward direction. Time will tell.

[schooter]

From Googletranslate

The decision Saguenay unpopular Congress. Robert Bilodeau, the regional representative of the 16 snowmobile clubs, returns to its original vision: we will have a strong regional structure to manage the entire record of the snowmobile and the resulting $ millions. But the recent decision of Saguenay to go it alone, greatly complicates things.

Back from the provincial congress of the Federation of Snowmobile Clubs, the representative of the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean felt a great tension on the floor of Congress and the grumbling from the other clubs across the province who must now deal with an arbitrary decision of the City of Saguenay which set some $ 900 kilometers of the compensation payable to farmers.

"The problem is that between Montreal and Quebec City and Saguenay Saguenay, there are thousands of private land and rights of way. How much do we need to compensate and if a group decides to block the passage of his land because he believes that compensation is not enough? "Asks Robert Bilodeau.

Last May, the former president of the Regional Tourism Association accepted the mandate to head the committee formed to répo0ndre at the request of the Minister of Transport of Quebec.

The mandate is to identify the problems of rights of way, where it will invest. The idea is to provide the Minister with a real situation.

"There, I have two clubs who have settled their problem but I '. To have 14 that have no solution," says Robert Bilodeau bitterly.

Of course, it believes in the need for regional solidarity in this matter even though now it is much chipped.

Robert Bilodeau believes in his vision, that we may need from 16 clubs to a club by RCM with a regional structure articulated to speak on behalf of the snowmobile.

"Right now, we ask volunteers to handle the millions that flow known sport of snowmobiling when their mandate is to ensure the safety and maintenance of their trails. Take the example of the cycle route. We have created a regional coaching and it works perfectly. For snowmobiling, it will come to the same thing with a single representative voice of the industry, "said the head of the clubs.

More than ever, the sport is now thank you to the landowners so that each small owner is entitled to seek compensation for giving the right to move on his land.

Had in the committee chaired by Robert Bilodeau must also meet the regional bodies of the UPA to discuss the case.

"Compared to the mandate that the Minister of Transport has given us, we will deliver. It was the best region for snowmobiling and should be better organized. We must regain control of regionally and provide a structure, a regional body to manage crises and implement various support programs. Hot Off the Press, "to launch in conclusion Robert Bilodeau

[davemod04]

In Vermont and Maine a landowner, private or public, is not liable for the use of their land by snowmobiles or atv's as long as they do not charge for the use of the land. If a fee is charged, then liability is assumed by the landowner. It would seem that this aspect of law would discourage landowners from wanting to collect a fee for trail use. Clubs assume this liability not the landowners.