iceman

Covid 19 Discussion

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Mike

I wasn't aware your wife was working amongst this Chinese mess. Im sure at this point they are all taking great precautions to stay safe and we all are thinking of her and slimjim,MrsGT, and all the HC heroes working with it. It is scary. I wondered what your wife was doing while you are sledding ! Be so glad when COV-19 is over.

If I was tested today and found to have COV-19 with no symptoms, Id ask my Dr immediately if symptoms eventually do occur...if they are on board with this the Hydoxy/Z Pak/Zinc drug combo. If they said no, Im telling them to get me another Dr that is on board in case I need help at some critical point. The key it seems is starting this combo early...and I’m not finding out they wont prescribe it when I am sick.

Don't take much from the VA Hydroxychloriquine “study”. The “study” has Major flaws...and is far outweighed by several somewhat promising results.

Dr’s are trained to believe less what they see short term on new drug treatments until it is heavily studied a very specific way and for years not weeks. In general this is great and necessary of course. Thank God for that. For this reason many have poo-poo’d the consistently promising news on this 3 drug combo. We dont have time for complete studies now since the war is here today. It’s not perfect but it is seems to be the best we have that has any safety testing/history that Dr’s insist on....and it has been used safely for Lupus and Malaria literally for decades. Suddenly it is a death sentence after millions of doses and decades of data ? Don't be surprised if we find out later those who died in this “study” also had multiple comorbidity challenges beyond the virus...or got it when it was last hope...that seriously effected that rate.

Oddly, This “study” ’ đid not include the Zinc component either. Also, It hasn't even been peer reviewed. Thats a huge problem. There is some chance those facts are buried well down in the hundreds of articles written this week far below the huge sensational headlines on these new and horrible “findings”.

It is remarkable how the press said the multiple  “studies” that showed promise and some feel literally saved their lives the past month were “not valid”....and scoffed at....but this new one with only 368 people and no Zinc and no peer review yet either...is immediately taken as gospel and the end of all the promise. It is literally the headline of every paper and website in 1 day. 

It did save the life of someone I know. Seeing is believing here. Im no expert by far but it feels to me that somebody has a secondary agenda...but as they say with the media...don’t let facts (or lack of) get in the way of a good story. 

Stay safe....and buy that new sled dammit. 😉

Mark

 

Edited by EastMark
Dumb

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Mark:  I hear you on the Plaquenil study.  I am big on study protocols.  If it's not a true double blind study with lots of participants and time it's useless.  I will caution you all to take diet studies with a huge grain of salt.  You hear every year, this diet is great for you, that diet causes such and such.  It's all BS.  To have a good diet study, a person would literally have to be on a strict certain diet for their entire lifetime, then a control group for their entire lifetime, to be valid.  No one is gonna do that.

Plaquenil is not without risk.  When used for Lupus or other diseases, it's used in a limited number of patients.  The more it's used, the more the known problems with it come to the surface.  It's major problem is that it widens the QT interval of the heart, so we have been getting multiple EKG's to make sure the QT interval is below 450.  Every one of our intubated patients did the plaquenil, z-pack treatment, which is 7 days then stop.  They're still intubated.  So, it is definitely not a panacea.  What I am seeing as a major contributing mortality risk is obesity.  My brother in law just got off the ventilator after being on the vent for 23 days.  IMO, the thing that turned him around was steroids.  On day 15 of being on the vent, they started steroids, and within 24 hours showed good progress.  1 person is not a study however.

I can't emphasize enough taking Vitamin C, and Vitamin D3.  I have been taking these for 10 years, and I tell you, being in the front lines every day, not only to Corona virus, I can't get sick.  It's crazy.  If I feel a little sore throat or something, I double the Vitamin C that day, and the next day I fell pretty good.  But again, 1 person is not a study.

Edited by slimjim2525

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Slimjim,

Awesome info. It is fascinating to learn how some of this stuff works. My understanding (non expert !) is the complications with heart are mainly related to those long term users of the drug as well.  They say there are many many patients on it for the Lupus/Malaria for several years and that risk is more of a long term user.

A panacea it surely isn't. We all pray for that day for sure. I only know what I read secondhand unlike yourself, but what I get is obesity is many many more times the obstacle vs the drug. Did you see the “more death, no benefit” being reported caused by the drug in your patients ?

Thanks again for sharing !

 

Mark

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On a more positive note; 

The first link now wants you to open an account,  Considering they are making an immediate production run of this while still testing makes me think they are on to something. We can only hope & pray. But then I get a bit worried for quick tests. For those of you who have not seen "I am Legend;" the movie here is the outline;   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Legend_(film)

 

 

Clinical trials to begin this week as Oxford researchers race to develop COVID-19 vaccine
The testing is expected to take several months, but the researchers have already teamed up with seven manufacturers in Britain, Europe, India and China to produce one million doses by September and millions more by the end of the year

Here's another story on it

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/oxford-university-coronavirus-vaccine-covid/

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My niece who has it was prescribed immediately by her physician with the Z-pak and hydroxy combo. Within a few days, she felt better.  It seems to be effective for her.

I  did research in the medical field for a few years . These “studies” take a long time (years) to be even considered valid/scientific. I am actually impressed with the amount of information that is coming out. Kudos to them.! 

/

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On 4/22/2020 at 5:52 PM, PLAYHARD said:

Back off for a few months of rent,

What about the building owners mortgage, real estate taxes, water & sewer, fuel, electricity, insurance, etc.....?  Are all those expenses going away also “ for a few months”?

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*********Disclaimer********.

i did not write this. But found it interesting.

This will make you think!

When the state tells you it's safe to go to Home Depot to buy a sponge but dangerous to go and buy a flower, it's not about your health.

When the state shuts down millions of private businesses but doesn’t lay off a single government employee, it's not about your health.

When the state prevents you from buying cucumber seeds because it's dangerous, but allows in-person lottery ticket sales, it's not about your health.

When the state tells you it's dangerous to go golf alone, fish alone or be in a motorboat alone, but the Governor can get his stage make up done, and hair done for 5 TV appearances a week, it's not about your health.

When the state puts you IN a jail cell you for walking in a park with your child because it’s too dangerous but lets criminals OUT of jail cells for their health- It’s not about YOUR health!

When the state tells you it’s too dangerous to get treated by a doctor of chiropractic or physical therapy treatments yet deems a liquor store essential- It’s not about your health!

When the state lets you go to the grocery store or hardware store but is demanding mail-in voting, it's NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.

But the absolute BIGGEST thing I have a problem with is when the state says you can't meet at Church but can meet in mass at Lowe’s, Walmart, Target, Costco ..etc...It's not about your health.

WAKE UP PEOPLE — If you think this is all about your health you’re mistaken! Please open your eyes  and realize this is bigger than a health issue. 

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11 hours ago, iceman said:

*********Disclaimer********.

i did not write this. But found it interesting.

This will make you think!

When the state tells you it's safe to go to Home Depot to buy a sponge but dangerous to go and buy a flower, it's not about your health.

When the state shuts down millions of private businesses but doesn’t lay off a single government employee, it's not about your health.

When the state prevents you from buying cucumber seeds because it's dangerous, but allows in-person lottery ticket sales, it's not about your health.

When the state tells you it's dangerous to go golf alone, fish alone or be in a motorboat alone, but the Governor can get his stage make up done, and hair done for 5 TV appearances a week, it's not about your health.

When the state puts you IN a jail cell you for walking in a park with your child because it’s too dangerous but lets criminals OUT of jail cells for their health- It’s not about YOUR health!

When the state tells you it’s too dangerous to get treated by a doctor of chiropractic or physical therapy treatments yet deems a liquor store essential- It’s not about your health!

When the state lets you go to the grocery store or hardware store but is demanding mail-in voting, it's NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.

But the absolute BIGGEST thing I have a problem with is when the state says you can't meet at Church but can meet in mass at Lowe’s, Walmart, Target, Costco ..etc...It's not about your health.

WAKE UP PEOPLE — If you think this is all about your health you’re mistaken! Please open your eyes  and realize this is bigger than a health issue. 

Quite interesting and very true.  I am forcing myself to not make my post political and will only say these actions by the government will repeat whenever _they_ feel the _need_  to restrict movement of the population.  

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9 minutes ago, hparaptor said:

My head hurts.  Can I go for a walk to the store to buy toilet paper?  

NO, unless you have too, then you can, but don't...

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1 hour ago, hparaptor said:

My head hurts.  Can I go for a walk to the store to buy toilet paper?  

Do you need it right away?, essential errands only up our way.🤣

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4 hours ago, Florida Snowman said:

Great video

My brother lives in Florida he said after closing the beaches they opened the beaches but not the parking g lots to the beaches and you can't bring umbrellas or chairs to the beach 

I guess because it is a long walk to the beach with a chair and umbrella under your arms

Officially the inmates are running the asylum 

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Guess how screwed we are going to be if these early openings backfire, and cases go way up and more people die, I hope like hell they are getting this right!!

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4 hours ago, NSHM said:

 

By then it will be too late and won't be needed any more!

And hence the saying “ sh*t happens”.👍

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I did not write it, This is copied and pasted.

I was reading some posts for and against reopening the country.  One was talking about being selfish and it got me to thinking.

There are those wanting to reopen yet they’re being classified as selfish. There are those that rely on all kinds of people to supply them while they cower in fear at home. Isn’t that being selfish too?

You expect your garbage to be picked up, you expect the grocery store to be open so you can get milk, you expect truck drivers to supply the stores, you expect farmers, meatpackers, fruit and vegetable pickers all to keep food in that grocery store.

You expect Amazon to still ship all the things you’re ordering while you sit at home shopping. You expect the delivery driver to leave it on your doorstep. You expect your phone to work, your power to stay on, and your mail to show up rain, sleet, or shine.  And most important, you expect the doctors and nurses to be there if you need them although many of them across the country have been furloughed because their units and services have been shut down while the entire system focuses only on COVID19.

The whole premise of shelter in place is based on the arrogant idea that others must risk their health so you can protect yours. There is nothing virtuous about ignoring the largely invisible army required to allow people to shelter in place.

I know there are some of you that are screaming mad about what I just said but stop and really think about what is allowing you to stay safe in your home.
I truly believe that with some common sense on my part, I could easily go back to life as it was. I want to go to restaurants, I want to shop at the little store just up the road.

And yes, I could catch COVID-19. I could also catch the flu or a cold.  I could get run over by a bus.  I could get struck by lightning. We take risks everyday. If you choose to stay home, that is absolutely your choice. And please don’t start screaming at me about how I’ll just spread it. Why are you worried? You won’t get it because you’re staying in your home. Are you going to shelter in place every time a new strand of the flu happens?

Our economy can’t withstand much more of this. If our economy collapses, so will the rest of the world’s. If that happens, you will see the rise of tyrants.
I absolutely don’t want people to die...from COVID or anything else. I want people to live.

But sheltering in place is not living.

A thought provoking read.
Copied from a friend that lives in Michigan

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2 hours ago, iceman said:

I did not write it, This is copied and pasted.

I was reading some posts for and against reopening the country.  One was talking about being selfish and it got me to thinking.

There are those wanting to reopen yet they’re being classified as selfish. There are those that rely on all kinds of people to supply them while they cower in fear at home. Isn’t that being selfish too?

You expect your garbage to be picked up, you expect the grocery store to be open so you can get milk, you expect truck drivers to supply the stores, you expect farmers, meatpackers, fruit and vegetable pickers all to keep food in that grocery store.

You expect Amazon to still ship all the things you’re ordering while you sit at home shopping. You expect the delivery driver to leave it on your doorstep. You expect your phone to work, your power to stay on, and your mail to show up rain, sleet, or shine.  And most important, you expect the doctors and nurses to be there if you need them although many of them across the country have been furloughed because their units and services have been shut down while the entire system focuses only on COVID19.

The whole premise of shelter in place is based on the arrogant idea that others must risk their health so you can protect yours. There is nothing virtuous about ignoring the largely invisible army required to allow people to shelter in place.

I know there are some of you that are screaming mad about what I just said but stop and really think about what is allowing you to stay safe in your home.
I truly believe that with some common sense on my part, I could easily go back to life as it was. I want to go to restaurants, I want to shop at the little store just up the road.

And yes, I could catch COVID-19. I could also catch the flu or a cold.  I could get run over by a bus.  I could get struck by lightning. We take risks everyday. If you choose to stay home, that is absolutely your choice. And please don’t start screaming at me about how I’ll just spread it. Why are you worried? You won’t get it because you’re staying in your home. Are you going to shelter in place every time a new strand of the flu happens?

Our economy can’t withstand much more of this. If our economy collapses, so will the rest of the world’s. If that happens, you will see the rise of tyrants.
I absolutely don’t want people to die...from COVID or anything else. I want people to live.

But sheltering in place is not living.

A thought provoking read.
Copied from a friend that lives in Michigan

 A lot of truth here, we need to find some balance without going overboard. The sad truth is a lot of people are going to die, choose how you want to take care of yourself, and think a little about others.

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Question for all. Trump's doctors suggested that people may have to carry a  certificate that you have been tested for the virus.  Some have said they didn't think they should made to get tested for some reason or other. If anyone here agrees with the some of the people would you change your mind if the Canadian government said in order to come into our country you have to carry a paper saying you have been tested and you do not at this time of the being tested did not have the virus.  Would that change your mind. Remember snowmobiling is always a adventure. Be safe all.

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25 minutes ago, Shore1066 said:

Question for all. Trump's doctors suggested that people may have to carry a  certificate that you have been tested for the virus.  Some have said they didn't think they should made to get tested for some reason or other. If anyone here agrees with the some of the people would you change your mind if the Canadian government said in order to come into our country you have to carry a paper saying you have been tested and you do not at this time of the being tested did not have the virus.  Would that change your mind. Remember snowmobiling is always a adventure. Be safe all.

Hers’s the thing. let’s say testing and the results were instant, which it’s not at this point, you could still easily catch the virus from the time you get tested till the time you decide to head north across the border or you could have already been exposed before testing but not yet showing signs at the moment of testing. Interesting idea, but until Quebec feels it’s safe to allows it’s citizens to circulate freely in their own province, I don’t see that happening. 

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2 hours ago, Shore1066 said:

Question for all. Trump's doctors suggested that people may have to carry a  certificate that you have been tested for the virus.  Some have said they didn't think they should made to get tested for some reason or other. If anyone here agrees with the some of the people would you change your mind if the Canadian government said in order to come into our country you have to carry a paper saying you have been tested and you do not at this time of the being tested did not have the virus.  Would that change your mind. Remember snowmobiling is always a adventure. Be safe all.

  Testing that said you had it and are immune, might work? I would carry those papers.

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