2014 yams or yamacat

[Trailblazer]

This Hobby cost Money

All hobbies cost money, some are inexpensive and others go beyond our reach, the point is that you chose a hobby that you enjoy and that your wallet can enjoy too, if it doesn't work either way then the hobby is not for you.

I grew up in small air crafts that my dad flew and dragged me along to airports on weekends to give my mom a break not to mention i was on the back of a bike with him going to the airport on the weekends.

Today i can't afford that kind've lifestyle so sledding and atving is my game, far from owning and flying planes but for me it's what i enjoy and can afford.

My point don't try to be or do something your not.

[grumpysanta]

ok i could be wrong about the chaincase , its a cat brake , so maybe their case, A.C. CASE COST $200 AND A YAMAHA COST $1000 SO why is the sled so expensive...ALL SLEDS HAVE FAULTS ... BRP 1200 CLUTCHES ????? ARTIC CAT CLUCHES AND BELTS AND STARTERS .. YAM HAS ITS EXHAUST PIPES AND DONUTS AND BUSHINGS .. POLARIS WELL ENOUGHT SAID .. MY 2 CENTS ,, its ALOT OF MONEY FOR PEOPLE TO AVERAGE 1500KM. A YEAR. Toys are expensive but if you want to play pay pay pay . IF ALL 4 COMPANYS TRADE PARTS THEN WE MIGHT GET YAMACATPOLDOO

[viper2]

Hey relax, I'm not bashing just responding to the other posts.

In the end the market will dictate who is and who is not in business. None of them could care less what any of us think or feel.

At 12K to 14K+ I personally expect eveything on the sled to work regardless of how unimportant someone thinks it is.

Not sure that anything is unimportant Gizz but I think you have to put it into perspective. I know there was a model year or 2 that had poor handwarmers for Yamaha. I had an 02 Viper with good heaters and now I have an 09 Apex also with good warmers. That being said I would never weigh the heat of the handgrips in buying a sled. I am pretty sure you can and I know I can remember sleds with no handwarmers and we got by. Everybody has their own thing and I can understand how some can point to "poor" handwarmers or too much weight when describing faults of a Yamaha. Coming from someone who has ridden one for years I point more to the crappy reverse and small fuel tank. The warmers are not an issue for me and I don't use gauntlets and honestly I am a groomed trail rider and the weight is not an issue either. Sure a lighter sled would be great but what is the sacrifice? I have seen it on other sleds light yes durable no. I just don't see a "light" sled that will make 20 or 30,000 miles. If I was riding rough trail maybe I would look for a lighter sled and just get a new one every year or two. I don't think the original intent of this thread was to bash any one brand and I am sorry if anyone thinks that but rather Yamaha riders worrying and somewhat lamenting the path that Yamaha has chosen, see just like everyone else on their brand we are mostly happy with what we have,think our brand is the best and have a picture in our minds of the other brands either from experience or what we hear. Hopefully things work out for the best and these sled manufacturers don't all end up merging into one I think that would be bad for the sport.

[actionjack]

Seems the Doo 1200 is doing very well. It sounds like a lawn mower but by most accounts has been very reliable with an excellent ride.

My Attak GT has been very reliable and in my opinion handles very well. The sound is addicting unless you have to ride at the drone speed. Lighter weight and a better track angle would make the sled even better in deeper snow which I would like.

The Pro Cross looks badass and most say it handles great. The Viper with a Nytro driveline sounds very appealing especially the XTX. My reservation is the Cat chaincase and reverse. On the PC it's already been very problematic.

If they do well next season ill be in the market for an XTX SE.

[gizz]

I agree with all the comments fully. I had and still have a Polaris FST switchback and really like that sled (go ahead and laugh!). But Polaris dropped their 4 stroke last year so i went looking and landed on a 1200 SE. Point is, I'm not sticking with Polaris just because it's Polaris. If you put the blinders on and don't try anything else you'll never no how great your current ride is or just how bad it might be. I found out by being in the market for a new sled and i'm glad i did. The GSX SE 1200 is without a doubt the best handling sled that i've owned. Yes it could use another 15 HP or so but can't they all? When i'm in the market for a new sled in a few years i'll be sure to see what's being offered at the time and do my best to ride them before i buy them, i'm not sticking with any brand anymore just because of the name. But that's just my opinion now that i've experienced the switch first hand. I really don't care if anyone likes my ride, I do and that's all that matters.

BTW, not bashing or anything(honestly) but we spent the first day of our ride 2 weeks ago in Quebec working on an Apex alongside the trail. Was it major? How to you quantify it? We lost a days ride because of it, you decide. The year before it was my Polaris that dropped an alternator thankfully at a gas stop close to a dealer. A couple years before that the other Apex would not start in Canada due to a frozen relay or something like that. Again, Major? not really but a pain in the ass nonetheless.

I'm just trying to keep it honest boys. They all freaking break and nobody keeps statistics on which one's break more than others so any guess at that statistic is only a guess. What i've found in the past is that the cocky one is the next to break. With that said I love all brands!

[800steve]

If you take some time to look at this, it might be a really good sled. I know some people that have the new cats, after first year prblems, seems to be a good ride. With the Nitro motor, maybe a great ride?

[vt_bluyamaha54]

Waiting for the pics of the BRP 1200 with 30,000 miles show me that. Then we can talk about being bulletproof.

With no major repairs that is.

X2 iceman!!

Just read where Nick Keller's record setting Vector is about to roll over 60,000 trouble free miles - so raise the bar a bit.

The Doo GSX 1200 SE is the best handling sled i've ever ridden. My riding partner came off a a 2006 APEX and now rides a GSX SE 1200 and says it's the best sled he's ever owned. I wouldn't knock it until you try it yourself....plus the handlebar warmers actually work without the need for big handlebar muffs.

Glad you like it. If you have it for 12-15,000 miles please share your service experiences with us because we haven't heard them from anyone.

Wow, you are really comparing a 2013 SkiDoo to a 7 year old Yamaha?

P. S. Isn't the "best sled you've ever owned" almost always the one you just bought?? LOL . . . . AND if your riding buddy had been 'tuned in' - via any of the Yamaha owner forums - or had a good dealer - there was a fix for the low heat warmers.

Hey relax, I'm not bashing just responding to the other posts.

In the end the market will dictate who is and who is not in business. None of them could care less what any of us think or feel.

At 12K to 14K+ I personally expect eveything on the sled to work regardless of how unimportant someone thinks it is.

We all expect things to work; but maintenance and a good dealer are sometimes the missing pieces in these stories about "problems".

Nowadays I think all snowmobilers fall into 2 categories:

1). Gearheads who do most/all of the work on their sleds themselves.

2). Folks who depend on their dealer for 100% of the maintenance and upkeep.

There is nothing "right" or "wrong" about either approach except that the folks in group #2 can be at a great disatvantage when things go wrong far from home. Not many of us can afford to pay dealer shop rates to do a ski to flap inspection. That is needed periodically to prevent problems - large and small on these sleds. Besides, you may hear or feel something that a dealer never would. This goes doubly for dealers who have no way to test on snow.

Folks in group #1 tend to gather information from the forums, their dealer, and anywhere else they can. If something does go wrong far from home it is usually catastrophic and unpreventable since these folks go over their sleds with magnifiers.

I disagree with your statement "none of them could care less what any of us think or feel". I know for a fact that Yamaha monitors message traffic on the forums to make some of their decisions and 'listen in on' what users are experiencing.

I agree with all the comments fully. I had and still have a Polaris FST switchback and really like that sled (go ahead and laugh!). But Polaris dropped their 4 stroke last year so i went looking and landed on a 1200 SE. Point is, I'm not sticking with Polaris just because it's Polaris. If you put the blinders on and don't try anything else you'll never no how great your current ride is or just how bad it might be. I found out by being in the market for a new sled and i'm glad i did. The GSX SE 1200 is without a doubt the best handling sled that i've owned. Yes it could use another 15 HP or so but can't they all? When i'm in the market for a new sled in a few years i'll be sure to see what's being offered at the time and do my best to ride them before i buy them, i'm not sticking with any brand anymore just because of the name. But that's just my opinion now that i've experienced the switch first hand. I really don't care if anyone likes my ride, I do and that's all that matters.

BTW, not bashing or anything(honestly) but we spent the first day of our ride 2 weeks ago in Quebec working on an Apex alongside the trail. Was it major? How to you quantify it? We lost a days ride because of it, you decide. The year before it was my Polaris that dropped an alternator thankfully at a gas stop close to a dealer. A couple years before that the other Apex would not start in Canada due to a frozen relay or something like that. Again, Major? not really but a pain in the ass nonetheless.

I'm just trying to keep it honest boys. They all freaking break and nobody keeps statistics on which one's break more than others so any guess at that statistic is only a guess. What i've found in the past is that the cocky one is the next to break. With that said I love all brands!

My riding partner bought a GSX with the 1200 motor the first year it came out - '09. He bought it because he was/is a SkiDoo guy who has never owned anything else. He bought the 4-stroke after witnessing the mileage, reliability, and freedom from the smell and nuisance of adding oil he saw riding with a Yamaha. BTW, he added handlebar muffs b/c he says the warmers aren't warm enough on cold days. LOL He also had to have his drive clutch rebuilt (<6K miles) because it was worn out and he wasn't willing to pay them $500 to swap for the newly redesigned one they came up with to better handle the 'unique torque and vibration issues' associated with 4-strokes.

You say you lost a days riding two weeks ago because of a failure with an Apex on day #1 of a ride but you don't give details. Usually problems on day 1 of a ride are lack-of-maintenance issues. Those details might back your claim that you aren't bashing(?) but leaving them out makes it look like you are beating up the Yamahas again(??)

The frozen relay issue your're referencing was a known issue that most owners avoided by either carrying a spare, replacing it, or removing the relay and warming it a bit. I'd bet that if it was cold enough for the relay to fail, the Yamaha wasn't the only sled that started hard - or not at all - without 'help'.

Yes, "they all freaking break" because they are mechanical marvels operated in a harsh and unforgiving environment. Each brand has its own requirements for periodic maintenance but I think if you visit some dealership service departments where multiple brands are sold along side Yamaha, you will learn something quickly by the sights in the shop.

[Scranton1]

X2 iceman!!

Just read where Nick Keller's record setting Vector is about to roll over 60,000 trouble free miles - so raise the bar a bit.

Glad you like it. If you have it for 12-15,000 miles please share your service experiences with us because we haven't heard them from anyone.

Wow, you are really comparing a 2013 SkiDoo to a 7 year old Yamaha?

P. S. Isn't the "best sled you've ever owned" almost always the one you just bought?? LOL . . . . AND if your riding buddy had been 'tuned in' - via any of the Yamaha owner forums - or had a good dealer - there was a fix for the low heat warmers.

We all expect things to work; but maintenance and a good dealer are sometimes the missing pieces in these stories about "problems".

Nowadays I think all snowmobilers fall into 2 categories:

1). Gearheads who do most/all of the work on their sleds themselves.

2). Folks who depend on their dealer for 100% of the maintenance and upkeep.

There is nothing "right" or "wrong" about either approach except that the folks in group #2 can be at a great disatvantage when things go wrong far from home. Not many of us can afford to pay dealer shop rates to do a ski to flap inspection. That is needed periodically to prevent problems - large and small on these sleds. Besides, you may hear or feel something that a dealer never would. This goes doubly for dealers who have no way to test on snow.

Folks in group #1 tend to gather information from the forums, their dealer, and anywhere else they can. If something does go wrong far from home it is usually catastrophic and unpreventable since these folks go over their sleds with magnifiers.

I disagree with your statement "none of them could care less what any of us think or feel". I know for a fact that Yamaha monitors message traffic on the forums to make some of their decisions and 'listen in on' what users are experiencing.

My riding partner bought a GSX with the 1200 motor the first year it came out - '09. He bought it because he was/is a SkiDoo guy who has never owned anything else. He bought the 4-stroke after witnessing the mileage, reliability, and freedom from the smell and nuisance of adding oil he saw riding with a Yamaha. BTW, he added handlebar muffs b/c he says the warmers aren't warm enough on cold days. LOL He also had to have his drive clutch rebuilt (<6K miles) because it was worn out and he wasn't willing to pay them $500 to swap for the newly redesigned one they came up with to better handle the 'unique torque and vibration issues' associated with 4-strokes.

You say you lost a days riding two weeks ago because of a failure with an Apex on day #1 of a ride but you don't give details. Usually problems on day 1 of a ride are lack-of-maintenance issues. Those details might back your claim that you aren't bashing(?) but leaving them out makes it look like you are beating up the Yamahas again(??)

The frozen relay issue your're referencing was a known issue that most owners avoided by either carrying a spare, replacing it, or removing the relay and warming it a bit. I'd bet that if it was cold enough for the relay to fail, the Yamaha wasn't the only sled that started hard - or not at all - without 'help'.

Yes, "they all freaking break" because they are mechanical marvels operated in a harsh and unforgiving environment. Each brand has its own requirements for periodic maintenance but I think if you visit some dealership service departments where multiple brands are sold along side Yamaha, you will learn something quickly by the sights in the shop.

Cmon guys............Everyone has their personal preference.

I am not brand loyal..............PERIOD! I have ridden all brands extensively with the exception of Polaris.

If Yamaha was that great there wouldnt be any other brand.

My personal feeling of the APEX is the seating position..........Your riding old school and an unexpected bounce is going to send the jelly out of disc c-1 to c-5. I don't dispute the reliability, power, fit and finish etc. Its a great sled for some riders!

I bought a brand new Nytro in 09 and took a 3500 dollar loss mid year because you couldnt pay me to ride the sled. It wouldnt' turn orrrrrrrrrrr you had to hang on the bars to make it turn. I loved the motor, no vibration, great power, comfortable, Great hand warmers!, 7 gallon gas tank (the other thing that really sucked)

Every Tom, Dick and Harry had a solution............Do this Do that, Buy this Buy that.........Cmon. If I pay 13 grand for a machine I don't expect to have to buy anything.

I bought a ski doo TNT that I have stuck with ever since.......... I have rented multiple machines and nothing has given me feeling that I need to go new yet.

I feel if you are so narrow minded to continually think your brand is the best............you are going to miss out...........and you sound like you are 5 yrs old!

The new viper is very intriguing to me...........Nytro motor (bigger gas tank), good handling chassis.

After riding this machine, I may take a shot at it after 2013. I will never buy a first model year.

This is just my 2 cents.............

PS MY DAD CAN BEAT UP YOUR DAD!

[gizz]

Holy shit dude, take a chill pill!

You're very sensitive.

I'm making it all up that's why i'm not giving details. LOL. Didn't i admit that my Polaris had an issue the year before?

And as far as 7 year old technology? Are you telling me Yamaha isn' still selling the Apex with the same suspension and Motor? Oh wait, they added power steering for whatever reason i'm not sure of.

Ride what you like, i'm not going to get into it with you.

One thing though i have to dispute.....Are you telling me that the Yamaha sent out some type of notice about the relay issue and admitted it or are you saying it was known because a lot of people had the issue? If they sent out a notice and a spare relay to carry around, then i'm ok with it. While it might be inexpensive if you didn't know about it and ended up 700 miles from the truck in the middle of Quebec without one you sure wouldn't say it was minor.

I'm actually liking this new Co Branded sled from Yamaha and Arctic Cat and i bet it will sell well.

I may even consider it someday after i put 15K on my 1200.

Ar

X2 iceman!!

Just read where Nick Keller's record setting Vector is about to roll over 60,000 trouble free miles - so raise the bar a bit.

Glad you like it. If you have it for 12-15,000 miles please share your service experiences with us because we haven't heard them from anyone.

Wow, you are really comparing a 2013 SkiDoo to a 7 year old Yamaha?

P. S. Isn't the "best sled you've ever owned" almost always the one you just bought?? LOL . . . . AND if your riding buddy had been 'tuned in' - via any of the Yamaha owner forums - or had a good dealer - there was a fix for the low heat warmers.

We all expect things to work; but maintenance and a good dealer are sometimes the missing pieces in these stories about "problems".

Nowadays I think all snowmobilers fall into 2 categories:

1). Gearheads who do most/all of the work on their sleds themselves.

2). Folks who depend on their dealer for 100% of the maintenance and upkeep.

There is nothing "right" or "wrong" about either approach except that the folks in group #2 can be at a great disatvantage when things go wrong far from home. Not many of us can afford to pay dealer shop rates to do a ski to flap inspection. That is needed periodically to prevent problems - large and small on these sleds. Besides, you may hear or feel something that a dealer never would. This goes doubly for dealers who have no way to test on snow.

Folks in group #1 tend to gather information from the forums, their dealer, and anywhere else they can. If something does go wrong far from home it is usually catastrophic and unpreventable since these folks go over their sleds with magnifiers.

I disagree with your statement "none of them could care less what any of us think or feel". I know for a fact that Yamaha monitors message traffic on the forums to make some of their decisions and 'listen in on' what users are experiencing.

My riding partner bought a GSX with the 1200 motor the first year it came out - '09. He bought it because he was/is a SkiDoo guy who has never owned anything else. He bought the 4-stroke after witnessing the mileage, reliability, and freedom from the smell and nuisance of adding oil he saw riding with a Yamaha. BTW, he added handlebar muffs b/c he says the warmers aren't warm enough on cold days. LOL He also had to have his drive clutch rebuilt (<6K miles) because it was worn out and he wasn't willing to pay them $500 to swap for the newly redesigned one they came up with to better handle the 'unique torque and vibration issues' associated with 4-strokes.

You say you lost a days riding two weeks ago because of a failure with an Apex on day #1 of a ride but you don't give details. Usually problems on day 1 of a ride are lack-of-maintenance issues. Those details might back your claim that you aren't bashing(?) but leaving them out makes it look like you are beating up the Yamahas again(??)

The frozen relay issue your're referencing was a known issue that most owners avoided by either carrying a spare, replacing it, or removing the relay and warming it a bit. I'd bet that if it was cold enough for the relay to fail, the Yamaha wasn't the only sled that started hard - or not at all - without 'help'.

Yes, "they all freaking break" because they are mechanical marvels operated in a harsh and unforgiving environment. Each brand has its own requirements for periodic maintenance but I think if you visit some dealership service departments where multiple brands are sold along side Yamaha, you will learn something quickly by the sights in the shop.

Edited February 22, 2013 by gizz

[lindasledgirl]

I guess we better add a 3rd category for people that can read all the forums and take really good care of their sled by running it in on a regular basis and in all cases before a big or remote ride. I drive 3.5 hours one way to a mechanic that looks after me and doesn't rip me off.

And sometimes sh@@ happens....to any brand new or old.

I buy the skidoo because I can lift it.

My Yamaha was great...just too heavy for my level of independence.

I buy a new belt every year.

Let's ride!

Edited February 23, 2013 by lindasledgirl

[gizz]

That's kind of the way i think Linda.

Most of what breaks are things that have nothing to do with the brand. On my polaris it was the alternator and polaris didn't make it. On the Yamaha the other week the screw holding the hyfax backed out or something because it was gone and hyfax came off and wrapped around the wheel. We were able to get it back on and back to the truck so we could get another one and put on. Not Yamaha's fault either but we had fun ribbing the guy about it, they did the same to me! They all have problems and sometimes they are unavoidable. Yamaha has a great motor, without a doubt, and it runs good! I don't know much about Cat but i've heard very good things about the chassis. Maybe this will work and work well, they must've done it for a reason. I have a skidoo because honestly the only dealers within 100 miles or so are Polaris and Ski Doo. Polaris dropped the 4 stroke last year to focus on the 600 and 800 2 strokes and i want 4 stroke.

I wish we could ride here in PA but not happening. Looks like another big dump up in the Northeast though.

[rmk]

What sleds do Yama. and cat have in the iron dog race now and last year. What sleds ran in last years cain quest run. I know doo and pol. do very well in both races. But dont know the out come of the others. I look at these things if it takes that then the odds of it taking what I'm going to give it or all of us together are very high. I do know this year poo is pushing the s.b. 136 only 600 that is telling me something.

So how did the others do?

[viper2]

That's kind of the way i think Linda.

Most of what breaks are things that have nothing to do with the brand. On my polaris it was the alternator and polaris didn't make it. On the Yamaha the other week the screw holding the hyfax backed out or something because it was gone and hyfax came off and wrapped around the wheel. We were able to get it back on and back to the truck so we could get another one and put on. Not Yamaha's fault either but we had fun ribbing the guy about it, they did the same to me! They all have problems and sometimes they are unavoidable. Yamaha has a great motor, without a doubt, and it runs good! I don't know much about Cat but i've heard very good things about the chassis. Maybe this will work and work well, they must've done it for a reason. I have a skidoo because honestly the only dealers within 100 miles or so are Polaris and Ski Doo. Polaris dropped the 4 stroke last year to focus on the 600 and 800 2 strokes and i want 4 stroke.

I wish we could ride here in PA but not happening. Looks like another big dump up in the Northeast though.

I agree 100% Gizz any sled any brand can break, I think though the reason that I as a Yamaha rider feel our sleds are much more dependable is what types of failures. An example is my '09 Apex GT its got just shy of 9000 miles right now. When I came home from Quebec last trip I took it to the dealer with some issues. 1) Reverse not working would back up a short distance then grind. 2) A little play in the handlebars 3) Ex. do-nuts leaking. None of this ended my trip or was no more than a minor issue. All was fixed under warranty ( I have the extented YES) Could the reverse be a better setup absolutely did the bearing in the steering have to wear out? I think it should last a lot longer Isn't there a better sysem for the ex. and easier to get at there has to be but none of this ended my ride. 3 years ago my wife threw a stud through the front heat exchanger just at the end of the railroad bed coming into Chapais this obviously had nothing to do with Yamaha as the sled didn't come with studs and was more my fault for not checking them more thouroghly (you know how I feel about studs) This cost us 1/2 day of riding. Last year this same sled had a failure on the trail and had to be trailered because of a chaincase problem that honestly was mine and the dealers fault. I found gear oil in the pan before the trip but the level was good. I took it to the dealer because I was sure it was leaking. they checked it out and said it was good but it wasn't. If I had insisted they tear it apart,or took some gear oil with and actually checked in the first day and a half I could have caught it. I do have a really good dealer that usually would not let that happen but it did. They replaced everything in the chaincase with new at no cost to me but we still lost a few days of riding, again I don't blame Yamaha for that one. Everyone blows belts break drive axles from time to time and just generally has odd stuff happen from time to time. Your buddys hy-fax was obviously not an engineering issue either. When I hear horror stories like Phil's with bearings seizing and the sled just breaking apart in general or other times with some manufacturers having so many recalls for the same issue or a certain model sled breaks pistons at 2500mi.I can't understand how people can deal or put up with that. I think it's time people stop putting up with that. Yes my Yamaha reverse sucks but if you are telling me the AC case will leave me sit on the trail I don't want it. If you tell me I need a new Doo every other year or it will fall apart really on Quebec trails??? sorry not for me. I know this is really hard to beleive but as a Yamaha rider I don't care if my sled is the lightest, I don't care if they are putting out the most HP I just know I ride 95% in Quebec and my sled is alot better than my last Yamaha in handleing,power and fuel mileage and I can ride on any of those trails at a normal sane speed the same as anyone else on any other brand. The last thing this sport needs is any brand to go under I think we need them all and have respect for all of them in one way or another but for all sled manufacturers the only way from here to improve from here is Quality we gotta stop saying well at least if I get stuck I can get it out or my hands at least stay toasty ay -40 its time to tell them all they are fast enough and ride great lets make them hold up.

[Mid Range]

Just a warning to everyone.......no brand bashing will be tolerated on QuébecRider.