Update Mt Valin La hutte trail

[Greg du Vermont]

Access to this section of trail within the Parc has been the subject of conflict between motorized and non motorized users for many years.

Many Quebec riders are familiar with the outstanding views of la hutte and I thought that this translated update would be of interest. Appears that is is anticipated that this new trail would be for the winter of 09-10, not sure of the access status for this year. So if it is open, this may be the last year for snowmobile access to the hutte.

"The conflict between environmentalists and snowmobilers about snowmobile traffic in the Mountains National Park Valin is about to end.

After months of negotiations, the League of outdoor facilities in Quebec, the snowmobile club Caribou-conscripts and the MRC Fjord-du-Saguenay have finally agreed on the creation of a new track which will bypass the national park.

Under the agreement, snowmobiles therefore cease to attend the park, probably by the winter 2009-2010.

For several years, environmental groups asked the government of Quebec to prohibit access to snowmobilers Mountains National Park Valin, particularly at peak of the hut.

The development of the new track will be funded by the Quebec government at a cost of 350 000 dollars. The new route will offer five locations of stops with panoramic views. However, snowmobilers can no longer reach the peak of the hut.

The director of the park, Francois Guillot, said the new route and new viewpoints to be arranged outside the park will meet club motoneigistes Caribou-conscripts.

Within five peaks that have been selected and we have overflown by helicopter this summer with club members, there is one which is higher than the peak of the hut and there is one that is the same height as the peak of the hut, "says Guillot.

Snowmobile Caribou-conscripts, Yves Simard, confirms the quality of views. He explained however that it is too early to know whether the snowmobilers come Mountains National Park Valin for the winter season 2008-2009.

[rob]

Thanks for this update! A new trail with several scenic viewpoints is exciting.

[Brdgbldr85]

Greg, Thanks for the info. Keep us up to date if we can access the Hut for the 2008-09 year.

[zeusand]

Access to this section of trail within the Parc has been the subject of conflict between motorized and non motorized users for many years.

Many Quebec riders are familiar with the outstanding views of la hutte and I thought that this translated update would be of interest. Appears that is is anticipated that this new trail would be for the winter of 09-10, not sure of the access status for this year. So if it is open, this may be the last year for snowmobile access to the hutte.

"The conflict between environmentalists and snowmobilers about snowmobile traffic in the Mountains National Park Valin is about to end.

After months of negotiations, the League of outdoor facilities in Quebec, the snowmobile club Caribou-conscripts and the MRC Fjord-du-Saguenay have finally agreed on the creation of a new track which will bypass the national park.

Under the agreement, snowmobiles therefore cease to attend the park, probably by the winter 2009-2010.

For several years, environmental groups asked the government of Quebec to prohibit access to snowmobilers Mountains National Park Valin, particularly at peak of the hut.

The development of the new track will be funded by the Quebec government at a cost of 350 000 dollars. The new route will offer five locations of stops with panoramic views. However, snowmobilers can no longer reach the peak of the hut.

The director of the park, Francois Guillot, said the new route and new viewpoints to be arranged outside the park will meet club motoneigistes Caribou-conscripts.

Within five peaks that have been selected and we have overflown by helicopter this summer with club members, there is one which is higher than the peak of the hut and there is one that is the same height as the peak of the hut, "says Guillot.

Snowmobile Caribou-conscripts, Yves Simard, confirms the quality of views. He explained however that it is too early to know whether the snowmobilers come Mountains National Park Valin for the winter season 2008-2009.

[Greg du Vermont]

While I would generally agree that a new trail is a positive, we may be missing out on the bigger point to be taken from this reroute. Once again better organized groups are succeeding in pushing their agenda to the detriment of snowmobiling.

What happens when our sport is successfully rerouted out of places to ride? Bill, Rob and many other Quebec riders can attest to the beautiful areas that once included fantastic trails that are now gone. Just take a look at an older trail map. The incredible views of the closed Haute gorge trail, the now closed 383 from Rivere Eternity to Baie Ste Catherine and many others.

Think about it, thousands of Snowmobilers are being shut out of a fantastic areas for the enjoyment of hundreds of so called Eco tourist, who travel to the Mountains in SUVs, all because they are more organized and bend the ear of government with a louder voice. This type of thing is exactly the reason for a unified voice in defending our right to access and one of the principle reasons that the AdmdQ was formed.

The AdmdQ is not celebrating this reroute, but is actively defending and promoting our interest by highlighting the inequity, adverse economic impact and physical irresponsibly of these exclusionary policies in interviews on the radio, TV and in print media.

The following is a translated version of editorials issue by AdmdQ President Patrick Boucher. I thought that Quebec riders may find it of interest.

As you know not all French translates directly to English, so I have added clarification edits where helpful.

(In January 2008, the Minister of Sustainable Development, Environment and Parks, Mrs. Line Beauchamp advised of its intention to prohibit the movement of snowmobiles in national parks in 2009 a move that will affect the economy of the affected regions significantly. Minister Beauchamp decided to line up on the side of pressure groups such as the regional councils for the Environment, Nature Quebec qu'Aventure ecotourism.

By following the advice of these groups, the minister has chosen to apply to all parks the year 2000 legislation which prohibited the practice of motorsports in conservation areas. So by 2009, in parks in the regions of Mont-Tremblant, Plaisance, Oka, Mount Orford and Monts-Valin, snowmobilers will be banned from these sectors.

In the Saguenay, there was recently an announcement regarding plans for a new trail that will bypass the national park. The new trail will be financed by the Government of Quebec projected cost of $ 350,000! According to this expenditure, it would seem that in Quebec "we swim in money" even if we are experiencing the worst financial crisis ever since 1929 and that our economy is threatened as much as other economies in the world.

The Association of snowmobilers in Quebec has asked the Ministry of Sustainable Development to review its position.

In the park of Mont-Tremblant, snowmobile travel was allowed for over 35 years on roadways that are closed during the winter, but used the summer by a large number of cars and motorized vehicles.

The economic benefits generated by snowmobilers and tourists are very important to these regions.

What are the consequences on the forest, wildlife and wetlands to build new trails to work around these parks? What are the consequences for the people of these regions and the lost economic impact of snowmobiling? What will offset these monetary losses? Will the environmental pressure groups step forward to find solutions to the consequences they have created?

Constructing bypass trails is expensive as is exampled by the Parc des Monts-Valin announcment. Moreover, is new trail construction really as environmentally responsible of an action as the environmental pressure groups such as the regional councils for the Environment, Nature Quebec and Quebec Ecotourism and Adventure would have us believe that they support and represent?

Before 2000, Parc Mont-Tremblant had the status of wildlife reserve. What is the logic in spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in trails around and creating economic losses? Why not restore the park's status to what worked well under the law before the year 2000?

The AdmdQ has asked the ministry to restore snowmobile trail through the park of Mont Tremblant, its previous law gave snowmobilers the right to travel for over 35 years and became a tremendous economic engine and tourism for this region.

Nature Quebec people and others, are they really in favor of an ecological development of these areas? It seems doubtful when we see their solution is to cut down trees in untouched new areas with unaffected natural wildlife all to bypass roads that are closed in winter and in summer on which motorized vehicles of all types are used to let people enjoy property that belongs to all Quebecers.

The environmental pressure groups say that they love and protect nature, yet they should be opposed to their own solutions. If they continue to be successful in having the sport of snowmobiling moved elsewhere in the forest by cutting trees again and again with the resulting adverse affects on the natural environments, it means that they are really most interested in quietness to protect their own uses of the forest while their first mission is promoted as being, protecting the environment and the friendly development of the territory.)

I would be interested in your thoughts.

[Brdgbldr85]

Greg,

I agree that the Ministry should review this, as this is not the time to cut off the winter revenues of the local hotels, restuarants, etc. who rely on the snowmobilers accessing their areas to keep them alive. Those people pasionate to ride Quebec know how important the clubs efforts are to care for the trails and to patronize the locals places along the way.

My hats off to you for your efforts and to keep the sport going for all of us who love to ride Quebec. Keep the updates on the trails coming as AdmdQ finds out more especially any reroutes or closings

Thanks,

Dale

[Greg du Vermont]

Thanks for reading and your support, be sure to join the AdmdQ as our numbers and mandate are important. Are you by chance the bridge builder Dale that we met at Auberge barrage in Onatchiway? If so welcome.

[Saguenay Bill]

This morning I sent an email to my contact at the Caribou-Conscrits Snowmobile Club, who is head of Security for the club, and asked him to comment about the Mont Valin La Hutte Trail, trail 265. He reported that the club is very pleased with what has been worked out with the Quebec Government. As mentioned 5 new trails will be constructed to different mountains in the area of the Parc. They will have terrific views of the Monts Valin and the Fjord du Saguenay. The trails will be completed by the 2009-10 season. For this year snowmobilers will have access to the Parc. Now remember we are only talking about 15 1/2 miles of trail that is being lost. It's from the bottom of Monts Valin, were the Petit Sejour is located, up to about 1 mile from 93, trail 265. I just this minute got a phone call from my contact. He said this will be so much better than what they are losing. Also, the government has drawn up plans and has put money aside for a new real wide trail from St Honore down to Tadoussac. He referred to the trail as being an International Trail. Again he commented that the club couldn't be happier with what they are getting. He also mentioned that the club has been thinking about not starting to groom until the other clubs in the area start grooming. As I have said, they went $50,000 in the hole last year because of early and late grooming. They are trying to work something out with the hotels. But as a lot of you know, guys aren't staying in the hotels from mid November til mid Dec. That's why it's so important to buy your pass where you ride. Hopefully something can be worked out. He reported that Mont Valin had snow 2 weeks ago then lost it last week because of the rain/warm temps. He said they should get snow this coming week.

[gizz]

This morning I sent an email to my contact at the Caribou-Conscrits Snowmobile Club, who is head of Security for the club, and asked him to comment about the Mont Valin La Hutte Trail, trail 265. He reported that the club is very pleased with what has been worked out with the Quebec Government. As mentioned 5 new trails will be constructed to different mountains in the area of the Parc. They will have terrific views of the Monts Valin and the Fjord du Saguenay. The trails will be completed by the 2009-10 season. For this year snowmobilers will have access to the Parc. Now remember we are only talking about 15 1/2 miles of trail that is being lost. It's from the bottom of Monts Valin, were the Petit Sejour is located, up to about 1 mile from 93, trail 265. I just this minute got a phone call from my contact. He said this will be so much better than what they are losing. Also, the government has drawn up plans and has put money aside for a new real wide trail from St Honore down to Tadoussac. He referred to the trail as being an International Trail. Again he commented that the club couldn't be happier with what they are getting. He also mentioned that the club has been thinking about not starting to groom until the other clubs in the area start grooming. As I have said, they went $50,000 in the hole last year because of early and late grooming. They are trying to work something out with the hotels. But as a lot of you know, guys aren't staying in the hotels from mid November til mid Dec. That's why it's so important to buy your pass where you ride. Hopefully something can be worked out. He reported that Mont Valin had snow 2 weeks ago then lost it last week because of the rain/warm temps. He said they should get snow this coming week.

Sounds like a good compromise has been worked out. Is there a "normal" time when the clubs start grooming (assuming there is snow)? I can certainly understand the need to control costs but i know for sure that i don't want to come all the way up there to ride ungroomed trails. We are planning on coming up in Mid December or so if conditions warrant so we'll be checking on conditions at that time. Hard to believe the season is almost upon us.

[Dozer]

National Parks are not places for compromises. They should represent the best of wild and unspoiled 'representative' country that a nation has to offer. Do we need motorized access to National Park land? In my opinion, as a Canadian, no way. Walk in. Snowshoe in. Ski in. Do so on trails constructed by park managers to limit impact and maximize the natural wilderness experience. If that's what someone is after in Mont Valin, as a snowmobile freak, I say 'Go for It'. Its a little nugget of territory surrounded by a vast landscape of incredible snowmobile country that has been created by, in very large measure, the logging industry. We have thousands of Km's of logging roads to run on, and if the government wants to step up and create a few more pathways in a little give and take, good on 'em. I've seen the look on a few cross country skiers' faces as I idled by in so-called 'dual use' country, and frankly, I sympathized with them. A person coming to one of our National Parks deserves a prisitine experience. Give it to 'em.

I know that this opens up a can of worms as far as the US / Yellowstone perspective goes, but what the 'hey', this is a Canuck talkin'. I am pretty certain that our wardens wouldn't put up with any Timothy Treadwells protecting bears in our National Parks, either. Keep the rules clear in National Parks. Its all about preserving wilderness.

Dozer

[longriderss]

National Parks are not places for compromises. They should represent the best of wild and unspoiled 'representative' country that a nation has to offer. Do we need motorized access to National Park land? In my opinion, as a Canadian, no way. Walk in. Snowshoe in. Ski in. Do so on trails constructed by park managers to limit impact and maximize the natural wilderness experience. If that's what someone is after in Mont Valin, as a snowmobile freak, I say 'Go for It'. Its a little nugget of territory surrounded by a vast landscape of incredible snowmobile country that has been created by, in very large measure, the logging industry. We have thousands of Km's of logging roads to run on, and if the government wants to step up and create a few more pathways in a little give and take, good on 'em. I've seen the look on a few cross country skiers' faces as I idled by in so-called 'dual use' country, and frankly, I sympathized with them. A person coming to one of our National Parks deserves a prisitine experience. Give it to 'em.

I know that this opens up a can of worms as far as the US / Yellowstone perspective goes, but what the 'hey', this is a Canuck talkin'. I am pretty certain that our wardens wouldn't put up with any Timothy Treadwells protecting bears in our National Parks, either. Keep the rules clear in National Parks. Its all about preserving wilderness.

Dozer

Dozer,

My only comment to that is that if they shut it off to snowmobiles sighting the causes of pollution or impact, then they should shut it off to all motorized travel in the summer as well. Doesn't seem fair to have it one way, but not the other.

Longrider

[MrGutz]

Dozer,

My only comment to that is that if they shut it off to snowmobiles sighting the causes of pollution or impact, then they should shut it off to all motorized travel in the summer as well. Doesn't seem fair to have it one way, but not the other.

Longrider

I agree, a giant motorhome lumbering along at 4 gallons a mile = how many sleds?

Gutz

[Greg du Vermont]

I think that it is great that the situation in national Park Valin has the potential to work out to accomidate all.

Personally, I had always hoped to someday have my ashes scattered at la hutte (via snowmobile), guess I'll have to connect with another place with the feeling of being on top of the world.

Gutz was very observant that the issue in Park Tremblent is not a pristine experience issue but rather related to roadways which are motorized during the Summer months. Historic use and available relocation alternatives are also important aspects to this general issue.

But isn't it nice that we have the opportunity to participate in an organization that has an involved, organized voice that can represent our interest in such issues of importance. Through your actions and involvement, please be a part of protecting our sport.

I think that this has been a great thread offering valuable information and an opportunity to consider different angles to an important impact, glad to be a part of it.

[Dozer]

I should stop drinkin' Creme de Menthe when I'm on this forum. Sounded like quite the Green Freak, didn't I? :wacko:

[Brdgbldr85]

Bill ,

Thanks for the reply from the park and the clubs views on the new trails.

I will be sure to take a few extra pics this winter at the trail du hut lookout since next season I will only be able to look for the tower.

[Saguenay Bill]

About 3-4 years ago the Caribou-Conscrits stopped grooming trail 265. The Park Service took over the grooming. They didn't do it very often and when they did it was a terrible job. The last few years it wasn't groomed very often. The vehicle they use to haul the skiers and snowshoers makes terrible ruts in the trail to the point that I"ve only gone up once in the past 2 years. BUT A BIG PART OF US LOSING THE TRAIL IS BECAUSE SOME JERKS JUST WON"T STAY ON THE TRAIL. They had signs up telling snowmobilers to stay on the trail but "the all about me" crowd just believes that that notice is only for other people. I don't mean to get on the soapbox but a lot of times we have only ourselves to blame.

[smclelan]

Bill you are 100% correct, 9 times out of 10 snowmobilers are there own worst enemy. Riding off the marked trails, loud pipes or cans, excessive speed around other trail users or urban areas, drinking, driving beyond control or abilities....... and the list goes on

[Greg du Vermont]

Unfortunaltly it is true "you can't fix stupid"

[Big Braap]

Unfortunaltly it is true "you can't fix stupid"

Funny....just saw Ron White on Saturday.

[rfm]

Thanks for all the great info.

[Brdgbldr85]

Thanks for reading and your support, be sure to join the AdmdQ as our numbers and mandate are important. Are you by chance the bridge builder Dale that we met at Auberge barrage in Onatchiway? If so welcome.

Yes I am, I remember seeing you there and talking about the Quebec areas.

Thanks for the good work on this site about admdQ.

brdgbldr85

[blizzman]

Greg,

Just wondering if this info is available somewhere other than here.

If so can you provide me with a link.

Thanks

Blizzman

[Greg du Vermont]

As far as my AdmdQ updates, time constraints dictate that Quebecrider.com is the exclusive place that I post my AdmdQ info. Hopefully this is another reason for our site to attract more members and visitors. As far as more and additional information of this type you can visit and get familiar with the AdmdQ.org site. Another quebec forum which I find helpful is the CMIQ at http://www.motoneigeauquebec.com/forum/index.php. Brush up on and test your french skills "which I promote" or cheat and use google translate as I often do. Hope this helps.

[blizzman]

Sorry Greg

I meant to let you knowthat I found the story on that site yesterday afternoon.

En Passant, mon francais est impeccaple. J'ecris, parle et comprend tres bien.

You might not have known that from our brief telephone conversation a few weeks back. I grew up in Québec and still live here.

I needed the info for a trail in our area that runs through a park. It is going to cost roughly $980 000.00

and is part of the TQ43.

Blizzman.

[blizzman]

Sorry Greg

I meant to let you knowthat I found the story on that site yesterday afternoon.

En Passant, mon francais est impeccaple. J'ecris, parle et comprend tres bien.

You might not have known that from our brief telephone conversation a few weeks back. I grew up in Québec and still live here.

I needed the info for a trail in our area that runs through a park. It is going to cost roughly $980 000.00

and is part of the TQ43.

Blizzman.