2011 yams

[grumpysanta]

yamaha has fallen on their hard head to think we will pay $17000 PLUS FOR A SLED FOR THE WINTERS WE ARE HAVING . May be this is the Japanese version of H.D. Keep the old and let them stockpile the new ones , power steering or not . yams will break we have seen this for some time now , since 03. Parts are expensive , esp. yams . and do we need this teck shit , or let them build a proper dependable sled that we can afford , I for one will hold on to my old sled and leave the new ones for the people with too much money. PS. it is also a joke what yam wants to give you for a trade , why does used sleds drop even when new sleds go up from 12000 to 17500 $ in 5 years and has used sleds gone up at all ????

[iceman]

Pay nothing ride what you got.

I love my Yamaha and will not look back.

I like to play on the 2 stroke for a local ride or just for the day.

But for my touring weeks back to back gimme the 4 stroke apex merci beaucoup

Since I started with the Yamaha in 2008 I have seen a lot more trail then repair shops and I know for a fact cause I have seen it

Can't say that for Ski Doo's lets be real here.

Ya get what you pay for.

Yes is very expensive especially here in Canada but really is Priceless for dependability and performance

[gizz]

Pay nothing ride what you got.

I love my Yamaha and will not look back.

I like to play on the 2 stroke for a local ride or just for the day.

But for my touring weeks back to back gimme the 4 stroke apex merci beaucoup

Since I started with the Yamaha in 2008 I have seen a lot more trail then repair shops and I know for a fact cause I have seen it

Can't say that for Ski Doo's lets be real here.

Ya get what you pay for.

Yes is very expensive especially here in Canada but really is Priceless for dependability and performance

Depends on whether or not you get one that has problems. I know for a fact that 2 of those Apex's had relay problems in Canada and would not start on cold mornings until they were warmed up in a garage. Does it make them junk? No but it also doesn't qualify them as troube free either. A sled not starting is a big issue regardless of what your on. I have the Polaris 4 stroke and i know it's had it's reported issues as well but i don't try and pretend it 100% troublefree. NEVER left me sitting so i consider myself lucky but i certainly don't consider myself as riding the best thing to ever hit the snow either. Bottom line is these sleds are getting WAY TOO OVERPRICED!! At nearly 15K they damn well better be dependable.

As far as dependable.....they ALL break sooner or later....you can count on it.

[grumpysanta]

ALL SLEDS HAVE PROBLEMS , yam is good for the 4storke motors but have gone cheap on other things like Wheels and bearings and bushings in front A arms and have slide problems and exhaust breakage, some nitros have weak front tables and apex have weak w arms in the rear , slides have been a big pain also, where other sleds ride in anything . We burn up in 10 miles of poor conditions . so we have repairs with all sleds but seldom with the motor BUT IT IS ALOT CHEAPER TO REPAIR THE OLDER ONES THAN TO CHANGE BECAUSE THEY GIVE US CRAP PRICES FOR OUR TRADE INS.

[vt_bluyamaha54]

Depends on whether or not you get one that has problems. I know for a fact that 2 of those Apex's had relay problems in Canada and would not start on cold mornings until they were warmed up in a garage. Does it make them junk? No but it also doesn't qualify them as troube free either. A sled not starting is a big issue regardless of what your on. I have the Polaris 4 stroke and i know it's had it's reported issues as well but i don't try and pretend it 100% troublefree. NEVER left me sitting so i consider myself lucky but i certainly don't consider myself as riding the best thing to ever hit the snow either. Bottom line is these sleds are getting WAY TOO OVERPRICED!! At nearly 15K they damn well better be dependable.

As far as dependable.....they ALL break sooner or later....you can count on it.

Some break worse than others when they break though Yes, any sled can have problems but I believe if you take all the Yamahas and compare them with an equal number of the other brands by adding up the miles, then adding up all the repairs, the Yamahas numbers would speak for themselves by being low on the repair side while being high on the total miles side. There are allot of Yammi 4strokes out there with 10, 20, 30, and 40K+ miles that have had "0" engine repairs and very little in the way of repairs - other than normal wear items.

The relay issue you cite was identified as a vendor issue and the replacement relay solved the issue(s) 100%. That relay was a new part the first year of fuel injection on the 4 cylinder (RX/Apex) engine.

[600IQHO]

Some break worse than others when they break though Yes, any sled can have problems but I believe if you take all the Yamahas and compare them with an equal number of the other brands by adding up the miles, then adding up all the repairs, the Yamahas numbers would speak for themselves by being low on the repair side while being high on the total miles side. There are allot of Yammi 4strokes out there with 10, 20, 30, and 40K+ miles that have had "0" engine repairs and very little in the way of repairs - other than normal wear items.

The relay issue you cite was identified as a vendor issue and the replacement relay solved the issue(s) 100%. That relay was a new part the first year of fuel injection on the 4 cylinder (RX/Apex) engine.

I completely understand your point about the Yam engines being so reliable. But 17K for a sled! come on get real. My 2 Polaris's are not perfect they are both going for minor engine repairs on Thursday. But again 17K that is what I paid for BOTH of my sleds back in 07. I can do quite a few rebuilds for that and I have also never had one of them let me sit on the trail. I have only ever had minor problems that I found after I returned home. Also most people do not put more than 10K miles on there sled then they upgrade every 2 to 4 years. Well those that actually live up there in paradise probably do put a lot more miles on, but the rest of us? I know this is my 4th season on my sleds and I am ready for something new. I do not need something new, I am just ready for a new sled.

[viper2]

X2 vt_bluyamaha54 I agree with alot of what is posted by the others, but they are grasping at straws when they try to cite reliability issues with Yamaha. Grumpy, I agree 100% that the prices are getting out of control but we the riders are partly to blame for demanding better performance in all area's with lighter weight to boot and now all this for the same money? Just can't add up. I for one am most concerned with durability/reliability. This is #1 for me it doesn't have to be the fastest or most rear travel and I don't have to lay over the handlebars or want to ride standing up all day. I am aggravated myself that manufacturers feel pressured to keep making everything lighter (junkier) They either save weight by using inferior materals (plastic) making existing materials too thin or using strong but lightweight (expensive) components. I also feel this is why trade in and resell prices are poor. There is a glut on the market because everyone wants a new and improved sled every year. As far as the slides go I have not experienced any of this. I have noticed that a new set will drag and wear quick for the first 1/3 of wear but my experience is it really doesn't even matter if you are in good lubrication or not this occurs. After that the wear was very slow. I was up at St. Zenon the week before the rain and I was on hyfax from last year yet. Gizz, I saw you were making snow last weekend in Haneyville that was pretty cool! Hey I know you don't really like Yammy's and hey normally I try to buy American, but when I only get to ride something maybe 20 days a year I want the best LOL. As far as the sleds go I have said this before a good dealer is the first step. You need an aggressive dealer that keeps their mechanics educated and keeps up with the tech bulletins. A problem has to be fixed before you go out. As far as the relays go I haven't heard of that maybe my dealer took care of it I don't know but I have ove 3500 miles on my Apex with no problems so far. My first day of my first trip last year it was -35F in the morning and 4 Apex's and a vector all with no miles and none would start without a jump. But there were about 50 sleds in the corral that morning all brands were covered and none started. It was so cold you couldn't even pull the ropes on the sleds that had them without taking the plugs out. Nothing is 100% troublefree, but there are few people that would argue that Yamaha is the best in this category. My last sled was a 2002 Viper. I still have it and it has 14,000 miles on it. I have never even had the head off. Back in the early 90's we had the Vmax 4's when we sold them they both had ove 16,000 on them without tearing into the engine. I always make sure and have my sled serviced by my dealer and they know that I am going on a big trip not just a 200mi. weekend to Tug Hill. I am not going to sit here and pick apart other brands because everyone has to ride what they like and to tell you the truth I think it's good for us in a way when the man. have to compete for our business. I have ridden for a long time though and with friend riding all brands and can honestly say I have seen some crazy s@$t fail over the years. Ride safe ..........P.S. Gizz when you heading up to Quebec and where are you guys going?

[gizz]

Some break worse than others when they break though Yes, any sled can have problems but I believe if you take all the Yamahas and compare them with an equal number of the other brands by adding up the miles, then adding up all the repairs, the Yamahas numbers would speak for themselves by being low on the repair side while being high on the total miles side. There are allot of Yammi 4strokes out there with 10, 20, 30, and 40K+ miles that have had "0" engine repairs and very little in the way of repairs - other than normal wear items.

The relay issue you cite was identified as a vendor issue and the replacement relay solved the issue(s) 100%. That relay was a new part the first year of fuel injection on the 4 cylinder (RX/Apex) engine.

Didn't mean to piss in your cheerios, I was just stating a point that they all break. As far as the relay issue though i don't think it was just the first year at all cause one was an 06 and the other was an 07 or 08. But it doesn't matter to me i don't bleed one color. I have both Polaris and Ski Doo and i'll buy something else someday if i like it better at the time. It probably will not be a Yamaha at $15K though. I'll save the $5K and take my chances. Did Yam do a general recall on that relay? I don't think so. Not starting is not starting no matter how you put it and that's as serious as it gets in my book. As for the statement about bunching them all up and adding miles and repair......we'll that's impossible to do so that statement holds no merit. Just a guess and guess's don't count. Sorry to dissapoint but year 2011 will NOT pull Yamaha out of the #3 position they hold in sled sales. Matter of fact they may lose ground to Doo cause that 1200 is a mighty fine piece of work and i know of at least one original Apex'r that now owns one.

[viper2]

I completely understand your point about the Yam engines being so reliable. But 17K for a sled! come on get real. My 2 Polaris's are not perfect they are both going for minor engine repairs on Thursday. But again 17K that is what I paid for BOTH of my sleds back in 07. I can do quite a few rebuilds for that and I have also never had one of them let me sit on the trail. I have only ever had minor problems that I found after I returned home. Also most people do not put more than 10K miles on there sled then they upgrade every 2 to 4 years. Well those that actually live up there in paradise probably do put a lot more miles on, but the rest of us? I know this is my 4th season on my sleds and I am ready for something new. I do not need something new, I am just ready for a new sled.

I have a feeling the 17,000 is sticker price, if so no one pays sticker. But yea prices turning this into a rich man's sport.

[gizz]

As far as the relays go I haven't heard of that maybe my dealer took care of it I don't know but I have ove 3500 miles on my Apex with no problems so far.

..........P.S. Gizz when you heading up to Quebec and where are you guys going?

Both guys with me last year had the relay issues the year before. I'm not bashing just stating the facts as they happened. I don't hate Yamaha either, so please don't put those words in my mouth. I just don't think they or any sled for that matter is the end all be all. You said it yourself that you've been on Yamahas for like 30 years now or something so how do you really know you're riding the best if you don't ever get on anything else???? I now own 3 Polaris and 1 Ski Doo, I would have a phazer for my kid if i could run across one for a good buy. We are going up the end of Feb and will be riding in the St Jean/Valin area. There will be 1 red Polaris Switchback, 1 Blue Apex, and 1 very sweet all black 1200 GSX(that guy came off the Apex). Still has the sled though.

Yamaha really has you where they want you!! You need to get those blinders off and look around just to make sure your not missing anything. Screen name and all the gear will be hard to change though.

See you in Canada, Eh?

[viper2]

Both guys with me last year had the relay issues the year before. I'm not bashing just stating the facts as they happened. I don't hate Yamaha either, so please don't put those words in my mouth. I just don't think they or any sled for that matter is the end all be all. You said it yourself that you've been on Yamahas for like 30 years now or something so how do you really know you're riding the best if you don't ever get on anything else???? I now own 3 Polaris and 1 Ski Doo, I would have a phazer for my kid if i could run across one for a good buy. We are going up the end of Feb and will be riding in the St Jean/Valin area. There will be 1 red Polaris Switchback, 1 Blue Apex, and 1 very sweet all black 1200 GSX(that guy came off the Apex). Still has the sled though.

Yamaha really has you where they want you!! You need to get those blinders off and look around just to make sure your not missing anything. Screen name and all the gear will be hard to change though.

See you in Canada, Eh?

I hope you are not trying to get me riled up because if you are you just gotta pull out the stud thing again, that would be the best way. I don't think I really came across too good in my posts or you would get that I really don't care where Yamaha ranks in sled sales......I ride the best not what everyone else or a TV show says is the best. Hey to each his own. Everyone likes something different I often wonder why guys buy long tracked Mt. sleds to run groomed trails but hey. I will keep my eye out for a phazer, what is a good buy I was looking at them too for my kids. Hey why not get a freestyle? As far as the blinders they really don't come in to play unless I look back I gotta tell you Gizz before I met you I thought maybe you had some kind of chip on your shoulder or something but after meeting you I realize you have a dry sense of humor. Oh and by the way I don't think they say Eh? in Quebec that's Ontario P.S. we will be up in Quebec the end of Feb. as well but I don't know where yet. Have Fun....Rick

[Greasemonkey]

Well guys, just gonna add my $.02. I've owned every brand, including John Deere. I've had at least 3 of each, except Polaris, only 1, would not waste my money on another. My current Apex is my 4th Yamaha. I like it. I ride it and I do all the service work on it. I think for touring the trails in Canada, it cannot be beat. Why are there so many in Quebec? My buddy went from an Apex to an E-tech. He's trading back next year. But, as stated, to each his own.

Now, as for price, it is getting out of hand. All I can say is, my dealer tells me that as long as people are not happy with the new models, the used sleds value climbs. He told me that my sled is worth more this year than it was last year! Nobody's trading. Nobody can convince me that any sled is worth $15,000. I love what Yamaha did for 2011. It is NOT worth what they are retailing it for. If Doo turbo's or supercharges the 1200, they'll be be asking the same thing. As for Cat's turbo, that's nothing more than a $13,000 anchor. Slow as hell.

This thread is like sitting around at the local pitstop after riding all day. Only difference is everyone is spread out across the Northeast. Kinda fun, eh? (sorry, had to say it).

[favarcat]

Both guys with me last year had the relay issues the year before. I'm not bashing just stating the facts as they happened. I don't hate Yamaha either, so please don't put those words in my mouth. I just don't think they or any sled for that matter is the end all be all. You said it yourself that you've been on Yamahas for like 30 years now or something so how do you really know you're riding the best if you don't ever get on anything else???? I now own 3 Polaris and 1 Ski Doo, I would have a phazer for my kid if i could run across one for a good buy. We are going up the end of Feb and will be riding in the St Jean/Valin area. There will be 1 red Polaris Switchback, 1 Blue Apex, and 1 very sweet all black 1200 GSX(that guy came off the Apex). Still has the sled though.

Yamaha really has you where they want you!! You need to get those blinders off and look around just to make sure your not missing anything. Screen name and all the gear will be hard to change though.

See you in Canada, Eh?

I had a relay freeze up at the HI 2 years ago. The Doo sdi's did the same thing. We carry a spare $5 relay in our pocket. If it doesn't start on a very cold morning, we put the warm relay in. Takes about 1 minute and we are finished before the 2-stroke guys are filling up with oil. But I will not spend $14,000 on a new snowmobile no matter what make. I will be keeping mine another 2 years at least. Depreciation is good for the buyer when you're looking for a low mileage 2011 or 2012.

Edited February 3, 2010 by favarcat

[Snobeeler]

Do sleds actually break? Is there any posts about sled problems that someone can point me to?

[viper2]

Do sleds actually break? Is there any posts about sled problems that someone can point me to?

2006 GSX 500SS Check Engine check the thread aside of this one for a start.

[grumpysanta]

X2 vt_bluyamaha54 I agree with alot of what is posted by the others, but they are grasping at straws when they try to cite reliability issues with Yamaha. Grumpy, I agree 100% that the prices are getting out of control but we the riders are partly to blame for demanding better performance in all area's with lighter weight to boot and now all this for the same money? Just can't add up. I for one am most concerned with durability/reliability. This is #1 for me it doesn't have to be the fastest or most rear travel and I don't have to lay over the handlebars or want to ride standing up all day. I am aggravated myself that manufacturers feel pressured to keep making everything lighter (junkier) They either save weight by using inferior materals (plastic) making existing materials too thin or using strong but lightweight (expensive) components. I also feel this is why trade in and resell prices are poor. There is a glut on the market because everyone wants a new and improved sled every year. As far as the slides go I have not experienced any of this. I have noticed that a new set will drag and wear quick for the first 1/3 of wear but my experience is it really doesn't even matter if you are in good lubrication or not this occurs. After that the wear was very slow. I was up at St. Zenon the week before the rain and I was on hyfax from last year yet. Gizz, I saw you were making snow last weekend in Haneyville that was pretty cool! Hey I know you don't really like Yammy's and hey normally I try to buy American, but when I only get to ride something maybe 20 days a year I want the best LOL. As far as the sleds go I have said this before a good dealer is the first step. You need an aggressive dealer that keeps their mechanics educated and keeps up with the tech bulletins. A problem has to be fixed before you go out. As far as the relays go I haven't heard of that maybe my dealer took care of it I don't know but I have ove 3500 miles on my Apex with no problems so far. My first day of my first trip last year it was -35F in the morning and 4 Apex's and a vector all with no miles and none would start without a jump. But there were about 50 sleds in the corral that morning all brands were covered and none started. It was so cold you couldn't even pull the ropes on the sleds that had them without taking the plugs out. Nothing is 100% troublefree, but there are few people that would argue that Yamaha is the best in this category. My last sled was a 2002 Viper. I still have it and it has 14,000 miles on it. I have never even had the head off. Back in the early 90's we had the Vmax 4's when we sold them they both had ove 16,000 on them without tearing into the engine. I always make sure and have my sled serviced by my dealer and they know that I am going on a big trip not just a 200mi. weekend to Tug Hill. I am not going to sit here and pick apart other brands because everyone has to ride what they like and to tell you the truth I think it's good for us in a way when the man. have to compete for our business. I have ridden for a long time though and with friend riding all brands and can honestly say I have seen some crazy s@$t fail over the years. Ride safe ..........P.S. Gizz when you heading up to Quebec and where are you guys going?

I agree with you on most ,, save a few ounces by putting in cheap but pricey parts ie. the idler wheels with no replacment bearings , I weight 270 so saving 2 pounds means very little . no new high tech stuff either too complicated for a off road vechile , dependable is what i want . I have 2 motorcycles , one is a fjr 1300 and i put lots of miles on her and nothing breaks , its rock solid and lasts for years with just maintance . SO WHEN DID WE EXCEPT ALL THIS POOR QUALITY FROM SLEDS THAT COST ABOUT THE SAME PRICE ! THE PRICE OF A CAR

[jagman56]

Do sleds actually break? Is there any posts about sled problems that someone can point me to?

Well i was on a trip last year in Quebec and we had a cat , two ski doos and a polaris the polaris had problems with the idler wheel, the ski doo would foul plugs in the morn start up and the cat needed a driver it turned over so yes there are problems. haha,Happy New year!

[Jackstraw]

Yamis may be dependable, but I rode an 06' Apex and an 08 Nytro and both handled like crap, couldn't wait to get off them. The nytro is gone and he is back on a 800 e tec, now a happy camper. as for the Apex rider, he doesn't get it, he's always at the end of the pack wondering why? :angry:

[dkarwh]

I have a few comments to make about the 06 Apex. I rode cats from 1968 to 2005 and 1/2. Walked out of the woods once when my 90 EXT ran out of gas. Probably my fault but they did like the gas!

I purchased an 06 Apex mid season. The following is a list of defectiveness (word?) I experienced with this POS.

I did manage to run it up to 18,000 miles.

Hi-fax, drive axle twice, axle bearing left side 3 times, relay for cooling fan, front end bushing & bolts twice, spring in undercarriage, shock in undercarriage 3 times, W arm in front of skid, all bearings in jackshaft and driveshaft, drive chain twice, sprockets once, darting (continuous) finally snow trackers, track - first time drive axle broke, exhaust 3 times (major money), hand and thumb warmer (useless), 38 idler wheels, 38 is not a typo!

The last straw was the drive axle breaking the second time on the trail from Pointe ala Croix to Amqui. Those of you that have ridden this trail know exactly what I went through to get the sled back to X-point. I know one thing for sure, if I had it to do over I would burn it right on the spot. Zero brakes is ok towing on level ground but when in mountain goat country it is no fun. Yamaha wouldn't reimburse me for the boots I wore out dragging them on the ground. The axle broke about 10 miles from the bridge where the groomers turn around.

I'm sure I have forgotten a few things. For what these things cost and getting Yamaha to admit they had any problems! It took 3 years to get a store credit for the second drive axle. I really loved it when they asked, are you sure you have the extended warranty!!! The biggest problem I had was buying the sled from a first year dealer and then having the son of a bitch skip town and go belly-up. Try and find another dealer to take care of the sled and the joke of a warranty. Luckily I have gotten past this shit although it probably doesn't seem like it. I am dismayed at the fact a snowmobile with very little machining compared to a car costs so much. 10,000 would be plenty and forget the fancy - make it to last.

I feel better now, thanks for listening and where the hell is the snow?

[SudburySledder]

Grease monkey, your comments have brought me to the table...what Arctic Cat turbo are you referring to? The T660? Because the Z1 Turbo is not a anchor by any means and when you make a statement like that it takes away from your other points. Look I ride what I ride because it works for me. I used to ride Doo, and I loved everyone of them. They were reliable, fast, and fun. But the fact is my group rides Arctic Cat and I had the chance to ride a Z1 Turbo and the power, ride, handling was second to none and yes I tried others. But I think the point about about the dealer support is important. My dealer is known as one of the best in the world (Arctic Cat) and what he has shown me I fully agree. Your dealer support is number one when it comes to buying a sled because they all break and it is how your dealer responds and how fast they fix it that sets them apart from others. As far as price well get ready everyone because they all are getting expensive. Part of the reason is the cost to warranty these machines is expensive. the fact that not many sleds are produced so consider tooling and outsourcing of the production of parts. It adds up. As far as Yamis go if it works for you that's great. I think their engines are great and the fit and finish is second to none. I am also different than most here as I think the cost of trail pass is too low. Has anyone else noticed that clubs do not groom as much as they used too? I believe the cost of the trail pass has not increased in line with the actual cost to maintain the trails. When you think about it the cost of the trail pass does not provide enough funds to fuel and support grooming as much as we would like. If the trail price was twice the price and I had the guarantee of grooming each night I would pay it. But hey that's me.

[actionjack]

One of the things I like about QCrider is the general lack of these kinds of threads.

Why not argue politics for christ's sake.

Anywho, my Apex started flawlessly everytime down to -40 until I washed it before its last trip to QC. It wasn't very cold the night before but the relay froze up. I fixed it myself by cupping my hands around it on the sled. The only thing it cost me was a couple of minutes of idiotic brand disparaging.

How's the forecast looking in Launadiere.

[SudburySledder]

Well the point is well taken but to be open with you is a nice thing about a blog/board is you can choose to read or respond to what you want to. So if you don't like the post then you can be quiet and move on. I love this board, and too be honest I would just like to see more posts whether machine or condition related. The more posts the more interesting to read and in some ways enjoy. As long as everything is done in a civil and respectful manner I have no problems.

[viper2]

Grease monkey, your comments have brought me to the table...what Arctic Cat turbo are you referring to? The T660? Because the Z1 Turbo is not a anchor by any means and when you make a statement like that it takes away from your other points. Look I ride what I ride because it works for me. I used to ride Doo, and I loved everyone of them. They were reliable, fast, and fun. But the fact is my group rides Arctic Cat and I had the chance to ride a Z1 Turbo and the power, ride, handling was second to none and yes I tried others. But I think the point about about the dealer support is important. My dealer is known as one of the best in the world (Arctic Cat) and what he has shown me I fully agree. Your dealer support is number one when it comes to buying a sled because they all break and it is how your dealer responds and how fast they fix it that sets them apart from others. As far as price well get ready everyone because they all are getting expensive. Part of the reason is the cost to warranty these machines is expensive. the fact that not many sleds are produced so consider tooling and outsourcing of the production of parts. It adds up. As far as Yamis go if it works for you that's great. I think their engines are great and the fit and finish is second to none. I am also different than most here as I think the cost of trail pass is too low. Has anyone else noticed that clubs do not groom as much as they used too? I believe the cost of the trail pass has not increased in line with the actual cost to maintain the trails. When you think about it the cost of the trail pass does not provide enough funds to fuel and support grooming as much as we would like. If the trail price was twice the price and I had the guarantee of grooming each night I would pay it. But hey that's me.

Don't want to start a riot, but I think I agree with you on the trail pass thing. In my mind the biggest problem occurs in areas where they get a fair amount of traffic but don't have someone online pushing their trail passes. This in turn gives little money back to some of the clubs that provide important links, let's face it you can't always plan on grooming once per week sometimes it takes a few times per week other times not. I won't even pretend to know the statistics but I would not be surprised to find out that 90% of the trail pass money goes to 10% of the clubs. :unsure:

Edited January 1, 2011 by viper2

[Saguenay Bill]

2006 GSX 500SS Check Engine check the thread aside of this one for a start.

You can't be refering to my 2006 GSX 500SS. I put 20,100 miles on it. I did burn a piston at 235 miles but other than that nothing with the motor. Now as far as the jack shaft bearings, well I have alot of experience with those.

[Greasemonkey]

Grease monkey, your comments have brought me to the table...what Arctic Cat turbo are you referring to? The T660? Because the Z1 Turbo is not a anchor by any means and when you make a statement like that it takes away from your other points.

Sorry about that SS. I've owned 3 Cats, 2 700 Wildcat EFI's and a ZRT800. Loved them all. That was a comment that some owners were using to describe their sleds after they were beat at a local plowed lake by the Apex's. It was 7 out of 8 losses. Maybe those 7 Z1's weren't running right. I also agree with you about the cost of maintaining these trails. The fuel cost alone must be astronomical.