Signfan Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 Any updates on this? Has the club made progress? Or is it dead in the water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnc Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 I haven’t heard anything new about it from club Diable et Rouge yet this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/2020-11-23/laurentides/un-sentier-qui-ne-passe-pas.php A path that does not pass The MTQ is about to give its approval to the opening of a 9 km snowmobile trail built in its right-of-way, along the 117, between Saint-Faustin – Lac-Carré and Mont-Tremblant. A trail built at a cost of $ 3 million. If Claude Armstrong is sure of one thing, it is that there will be deaths on the new snowmobile trail that passes in front of his house, on the side of Route 117, in the Laurentians. Claude Armstrong lives on route 117, in Saint-Faustin – Lac-Carré. The new snowmobile trail passes less than 14 meters from his house. I guarantee you there will be deaths. Claude armstrong "I don't mean to be pessimistic, but it's the same," he says. If I have a choice between getting into my butt at 90 km / h or getting into a snowmobile, I'll go for the snowmobile. " Mr. Armstrong lives with his wife, Guylaine Parent, in Saint-Faustin – Lac-Carré, on the edge of Mont-Tremblant. His house can be seen driving north on the 117, just past the Go-Kart Emond and Motel Tremblant. It is even easier to see since the Quebec Ministry of Transport (MTQ) cut the trees that protected it a little from the noise of cars and trucks, and their headlights at night. But it is nothing compared to what is to come. Two weights, two measures The new trail aims to restore the continuity of the network of snowmobile trails in Quebec, broken by a judgment of the Superior Court in 2004. By prohibiting the passage of snowmobiles on a section of the linear park of the P'tit Train du Nord, between Saint-Faustin and Labelle, this judgment had the effect of cutting the network in two and preventing the passage of snowmobiles from the east to the west of Quebec. This interferes with the practice of this activity, which many followers appreciate long journeys. This is also detrimental to its tourism potential, particularly among Ontario and European customers. The MTQ has entrusted the project management of the track to the Diable et Rouge snowmobile club, a non-profit organization. “For me and for the club, the trail is over,” says its president, Roland Leroy. Signage is installed. We are only waiting for the OK from Minister Bonnardel. The rest of us think there is no security problem. The work that needed to be done has been done. " While the objective is laudable, the proposed track poses two problems. First, the well-being of residents, who will be affected by the passage of noisy snowmobiles, which number in the hundreds, on certain weekend days. Then, security, because the entrance to several houses is on Route 117 and to access their homes by car, residents will have to cross the snowmobile trail. The new 9 km stretch was due to open last winter. But the MTQ decided to postpone this decision because local residents complained that they had not been consulted. Corrections also had to be made to the layout to bring it up to standard. "It does not hold up" Mr. Armstrong isn't the only one who thinks this project doesn't make "common sense." His wife Guylaine Parent and stepfather Guy Parent are opposed. His daughter Annie-Claude and his wife's cousin, Francine Tremblay, too. They all live on the 117, next to each other. Guy Parent learned of the new snowmobile trail when a tractor started pushing dirt in front of his house in the summer of 2019. Guy Parent, Claude Armstrong's stepfather It doesn't hold up, it's too dangerous. Guy Parent For her part, Hélène Turgeon remains one minute by car, on Maisonneuve Road. “It’s not safe for motorists, it’s not safe for snowmobilers, and it’s not safe for us residents,” she adds. People who are going up north at night are going to have car headlights in their faces for miles and miles because it's going to be two-way, that snowmobile trail runway. It’s not smart. " Hélène Turgeon lives on Maisonneuve Road which opens onto 117, in Mont-Tremblant. I'm afraid of having a crash. Helene turgeon Nadine Dumas is on the Chemin de la Pisciculture in Saint-Faustin – Lac-Carré, 2.5 km further on. The new snowmobile trail runs through his yard. Last year, she was the one who caused the shutdown by filing a complaint with the MTQ and another with the Order of Engineers because they forgot to ask for her consent. Several of the mature trees that provided shade and shielded her from the noise of the 117 were cut without warning. The snowmobile trail passes through Nadine Dumas' yard in Saint-Faustin. A bridge was built to span the stream that borders its land. They made monumental mistakes and I don't have to suffer them. Nadine Dumas Twenty-four residents signed a letter circulated by Ms. Turgeon asking for the project to be stopped in its current form. Several wrote to Transport Minister François Bonnardel, Labelle MP Chantal Jeannotte, and Mont-Tremblant mayor Luc Brisebois, hoping to prevent it from opening. “The MTQ is more concerned with amphibians and wetlands than humans,” deplores Claude Lamoureux, husband of Ms. Turgeon. It's as if humans are not part of the kingdom. " But 24 citizens is not much. In January 2002, more than 1,000 of them filed for a class action, along with an injunction, to close the snowmobile trail on the P'tit Train du Nord linear park, between Saint-Faustin and Labelle. . Judge Hélène Langlois, of the Superior Court, ruled in their favor in November 2004. She at the same time condemned the government and the MRC des Laurentides to pay $ 1,200 per year to residents living 100 meters or less from the linear park, in compensation for the inconvenience suffered during the seven seasons when snowmobile traffic was authorized, between 1997 and 2004. The influence of the MTQ Paradoxically, the new path will cause residents to suffer much more marked inconvenience than those sanctioned by this judgment. The reason is that the Department of Transport has the right to do so because the new runway is on their right-of-way. "The fact that the trail passes on the right-of-way, near Route 117, that makes a difference, in the sense that the Ministry must have access to this right-of-way anyway, whether it is to clear snow from Route 117 or to do different jobs, ”explains MTQ spokesperson Nathalie Nolin. “So the people who live nearby cannot fundamentally contest interventions on the MTQ's right-of-way. " At Claude Armstrong and Guylaine Parent's, the path passes 13.75 m from the living room. It is also very close to Isabelle Casault's, in Saint-Faustin – Lac-Carré, which has never been consulted. The track passes very close to the house of Isabelle Casault who lives near route 117, rue Saint-Faustin. The MTQ says that the edge of the road belongs to it. But it's still happening in my backyard. It's going to be super dangerous. And here, besides, it is already very dangerous. I have often seen accidents. Isabelle Casault His neighbor Isabelle Grand-Maison, who has not been asked for her consent either, estimates the distance between the snowmobile trail and her house at six meters. "There will be deaths if Ski-Doos cross here," she swears. On November 4, the MTQ carried out an inspection of the trail and demanded additional work. But, "according to another analysis which will confirm that everything is in conformity, it would indeed be possible that the trail can be opened this year", confirms the spokesperson for the MTQ, who adds that a limit of 10 km / h will be imposed. in places on the track. Social acceptability of the project The mayor of Mont-Tremblant, Luc Brisebois, without objecting, is not enthusiastic. He asked to meet with Minister François Bonnardel to share his concerns with him. “They are at home,” he said of the MTQ. They can do whatever they want. What I find sad is that there is a safety aspect to it. It seems to me that we might care a little about our people. Me, it's my whole world. " I am not against the snowmobile trail. But I will try to find solutions to make people happy. Luc Brisebois, Mayor of Mont-Tremblant Regarding the social acceptability of the project, the spokesperson for the Ministry stressed that snowmobilers must also be taken into account. "Social acceptability is not fair to residents," explains Nathalie Nolin. It is also for snowmobilers who want to practice their sport. There are different groups, too, who are in favor. You have to look at all the needs and orientations related to that. " According to the president of the Diable et Rouge snowmobile club, Roland Leroy, "people who are not happy, there will always be". Many believe, however, that it would have been better if the trail had followed the 117 on the south side or, better yet, had passed into the median in the center. But these two solutions, considered by the MTQ, would have cost much more. Chronology of events JANUARY 1989 The MRC des Laurentides is transforming the railway line between Saint-Jérôme and Mont-Laurier into a linear park. JANUARY 1997 The MRC authorizes the use of snowmobiles there in winter. NOVEMBER 1997 The Coalition for the Protection of the Environment of the P’tit Train du Nord Linear Park is born. JANUARY 2002 The Court allows the Coalition's class action claim, along with an injunction to close the runway. In 2000, the first records show 523 to 874 snowmobiles per day on Saturdays, from 427 to 567 on Sundays. NOVEMBER 2004 Justice Hélène Langlois, of the Superior Court, ordered the linear park to be closed to snowmobiles and the payment of compensation to residents of the snowmobile trail. DECEMBER 2004 The government passes a special law prohibiting residents of snowmobile trails from suing because of the related inconvenience. He is appealing Justice Langlois' decision. JULY 2009 The appeal is abandoned. DECEMBER 2017 Quebec announces the construction of the 9 km snowmobile trail between Saint-Faustin – Lac-Carré and Mont-Tremblant. He gives the mandate to carry out the work to the Club de motoneige Diable et Rouge. AUGUST 2019 Beginning of the construction site. DECEMBER 2019 The opening of the trail is postponed for a year. A working group, bringing together elected officials, residents, representatives of the Ministère des Transports du Québec (MTQ) and the Fédération des clubs de motoneigistes du Québec, was created to coordinate the next steps. Snowmobiling in numbers 3.27 billion Economic spinoffs generated by snowmobiling in Quebec 14,000 Number of snowmobile-related jobs 33,000 Number of kilometers of marked snowmobile trails, interconnected and maintained by volunteers 30,000 Number of tourists from outside Quebec 207,991 Number of snowmobiles in circulation in the province in 2019 200 Number of snowmobile clubs grouped within the Fédération des clubs de motoneigistes du Québec (FCMQ) 330 Cost of access to the trails for the 2020-2021 season before December 9. This amount increases to $ 420 after December 9. Sources: Government of Quebec and FCMQ sledfarmer, MrGutz and PLAYHARD 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smclelan Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 Good news Iceman. This has been a painful process it seems. Glad it is finally open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 8 hours ago, iceman said: Claude armstrong "I don't mean to be pessimistic, but it's the same," he says. If I have a choice between getting into my butt at 90 km / h or getting into a snowmobile, I'll go for the snowmobile. " Interesting loss in translation, but great choice i think. PLAYHARD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledfarmer Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 only 16 years and 3 million dollars . We cross at Masson so this opens the gate to the entire east half of the trail network for us . Very happy camper here ! PLAYHARD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signfan Posted November 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 Nice to see it opening. What a bunch of whining from people that already live beside a freeway. As silly as the original closure. Those homes all were built next to an operating railroad. This will make a great loop around the park. Everyone respect the posted speed limits. This club has had enough grief with this. Respectful riders will allow them to show this can be used safely. Prove all of the folks in the article wrong. sledfarmer, PLAYHARD and mikerider 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnc Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 I would have liked the trail to travel down the center median of the highway, higher cost is not an excuse compared to the fact that after all this money has been spent this section will always be a bone of contention for these residents and just a handful of throttle happy sleddders can potentially ruin it for everyone else. Ride slow and be respectful if you get to travel this section Please. Having said that, I find it ironic that a group of residents are fearful for their safety from snowmobiles crossing their driveways when in fact their driveways enter directly onto a 2 lane highway with people passing on that highway dependant on those residents vigilance For their safety. actionjack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGutz Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Cnc said: for their safety from snowmobiles crossing their driveways Those are not jumps every 100 feet?......oh.... LOL GutZ PLAYHARD, sledfarmer and MrsGTRider 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLAYHARD Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 15 hours ago, iceman said: According to the president of the Diable et Rouge snowmobile club, Roland Leroy, "people who are not happy, there will always be". That's some zen-buddha sh*t right there. P Hardy, iceman, sledfarmer and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLAYHARD Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 7 hours ago, iceman said: 16 hours ago, iceman said: getting into my butt at 90 km / h or getting into a snowmobile, I'll go for the snowmobile. " Interesting loss in translation, but great choice i think. How you say?... "My thumb is burning!...Mon pouce brûle!" MrGutz and iceman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLAYHARD Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 5 hours ago, Signfan said: Everyone respect the posted speed limits. This club has had enough grief with this. Respectful riders will allow them to show this can be used safely. Prove all of the folks in the article wrong. Pretty simple plan for much if not all human matters: Respect MrGutz, iceman and dooright 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actionjack Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) Shoulda just put the trail back on the L' Ptit Train du Nord. Its idiotic! What a waste. Well I for one like this area so when ever we get back to Quebec it will help make starting in Lac Carling even better. Hopefully the club does some massive signage on either end of this trail. Funny to see that picture of the lady with that massive tow truck rolling behind her. Other than cans or extreme speed not much chance the trail will be louder. Edited November 24, 2020 by actionjack PLAYHARD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signfan Posted November 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Cnc said: I would have liked the trail to travel down the center median of the highway, higher cost is not an excuse compared to the fact that after all this money has been spent this section will always be a bone of contention for these residents and just a handful of throttle happy sleddders can potentially ruin it for everyone else. Ride slow and be respectful if you get to travel this section Please. Having said that, I find it ironic that a group of residents are fearful for their safety from snowmobiles crossing their driveways when in fact their driveways enter directly onto a 2 lane highway with people passing on that highway dependant on those residents vigilance For their safety. I could see the centre median being the last place a highway engineer would want this trail built. That would be space for a third lane in each direction and also the area where most car run offs will end up. From the pics I've seen they kept a good portion of the trail as far away from the traveled roadway as they could. I'm sure this was all vetted by highway engineering. Like the club rep said there is a small group that will never be happy. Let's all behave and not give them a legitimate excuse to complain about. I wonder what this means for the trail north of Saint Donat through the park. Do we get to keep it too? Edited November 24, 2020 by Signfan PLAYHARD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 33 minutes ago, Signfan said: Like the club rep said there is a small group that will never be happy. What we have here is a classic example of “be careful what you wish for” all those who signed petitions and fought to close the P’tit train du nord trail are surely exactly like this group of unhappy campers, Now as the other people along the closed section of trail are hugging their trees and singing coom ba yah, This group of their companions will just have to deal with it. Remember it’s better to be pissed off than be pissed on. (Unless you are into that) I LOVE LOVE LOVE the fact that basically the MTQ told the residents to go kick rocks as it’s their right of way and they can do what they see fit with it. Surely will be a hotbed of police activity as was the former trail. Personally does not affect me as it’s not an area I would normally pass through anyway but for those who been waiting for it to make a comeback I am happy for you. PLAYHARD and sledfarmer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledfarmer Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, iceman said: What we have here is a classic example of “be careful what you wish for” all those who signed petitions and fought to close the P’tit train du nord trail are surely exactly like this group of unhappy campers, Now as the other people along the closed section of trail are hugging their trees and singing coom ba yah, This group of their companions will just have to deal with it. Remember it’s better to be pissed off than be pissed on. (Unless you are into that) I LOVE LOVE LOVE the fact that basically the MTQ told the residents to go kick rocks as it’s their right of way and they can do what they see fit with it. Surely will be a hotbed of police activity as was the former trail. Personally does not affect me as it’s not an area I would normally pass through anyway but for those who been waiting for it to make a comeback I am happy for you. This area affects me in a huge way and although I usually set cruise control around 140km/hr , I will be more than happy to ride the 9km at 10km/hr to ensure many years of passage . 😁 Edited November 24, 2020 by sledfarmer iceman and PLAYHARD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnc Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, sledfarmer said: This area affects me in a huge way and although I usually set cruise control around 140km/hr , I will be more than happy to ride the 9km at 10km/hr to ensure many years of passage . 😁 Yeah I’m willing to ride slow through there for sure, now if they could just get the stretch from Tremblant to labelle open we would be in great shape. Florida Snowman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gullyrider Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 On 11/24/2020 at 3:17 PM, actionjack said: Shoulda just put the trail back on the L' Ptit Train du Nord. Its idiotic! What a waste. Well I for one like this area so when ever we get back to Quebec it will help make starting in Lac Carling even better. Hopefully the club does some massive signage on either end of this trail. Funny to see that picture of the lady with that massive tow truck rolling behind her. Other than cans or extreme speed not much chance the trail will be louder. Thanks to the Langlois judgement, re-establishing it on the old Petit Train du Nord route is a complete impossibility. The more cancerous aspects of that judgement were the payouts she offered to those nearby neighbours who "had suffered", and the fact she left the door open for one landowner to sue his neighbour should said neighbour authorize a trail across his or her own property. We almost lost the entire network because of it, and only the periodically reinstated moratoriums on these sort of legal actions saved it. It was a very stressful time, let me tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actionjack Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Gullyrider said: Thanks to the Langlois judgement, re-establishing it on the old Petit Train du Nord route is a complete impossibility. The more cancerous aspects of that judgement were the payouts she offered to those nearby neighbours who "had suffered", and the fact she left the door open for one landowner to sue his neighbour should said neighbour authorize a trail across his or her own property. We almost lost the entire network because of it, and only the periodically reinstated moratoriums on these sort of legal actions saved it. It was a very stressful time, let me tell you. I read about those payouts for the 1st time in this referenced article. Just silly, it was a darn train track right? And much of it was and still is trail. Miss you guys! Hope you guys get to enjoy some semblance of a season. Edited November 26, 2020 by actionjack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.