BOBLER Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 Is there bad blood between some of the clubs and FCMQ? Causing delay in reporting or in some cases not report at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padragon800 Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 Wonder the same thing seems odd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towing Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 (edited) The big change this year is insurance related... i'm not sure if it have already been discussed here but here are the facts There is an increase of legal proceeding against snowmobile clubs in the last years, especially this last spring there is one that ended up with a $3 000 000 settlement against Rouyn Noranda snowmobile club and there are others pursuits pendings... https://www.canadianlawyermag.com/practice-areas/personal-injury/snowmobile-club-negligent-for-a-tree-stump-that-permanently-injured-a-man-quebec-superior-court/376167 It not only increase the insurance fees for the clubs/FCMQ to get covered but also tend to be an insurability problem and if no company want to insure... no snowmobile clubs will take the chance to open a trail. It's not a joke it is a very serious issue. So this season each snowmobile club have to follow some new security rules for trails opening, all the signs and opening work on trail need to be complete and they have to fill up a form that they sign and send to fcmq before activate the dozer GPS and the trails can show up open in Imotoneige. They need to do that to make the trails safer and protect insurability of the system in the future. Other than that are the usuals bugs and delays that can happen with Imotoneige system and the clubs volunteers those lasts days are more on trail work than the web for sure! We were almost on dirts just a week ago and there are between 2 and 3 feets of snow to the ground right now after this second storm yesterday in my area and many others. Imotoneige picture will change a lot in the next week... Edited January 15 by towing doo4adoo, mccaffrey, MrsGTRider and 7 others 7 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBLER Posted January 14 Author Report Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, towing said: The big change this year in insurance related... i'm not sure if it have already been discussed here but here the facts There is an increase of legal proceeding against snowmobile clubs in the last years, especially this last spring there is one that ended up with a $3 000 000 settlement against Rouyn Noranda snowmobile club and there are others pursuits pendings... https://www.canadianlawyermag.com/practice-areas/personal-injury/snowmobile-club-negligent-for-a-tree-stump-that-permanently-injured-a-man-quebec-superior-court/376167 It not only increase the insurance fees for the clubs/FCMQ to get covered but also tend to be an insurability problem and if no company want to insure... no snowmobile clubs will take the chance to open a trail. It's not a joke it is a very serious issue. So this season each snowmobile club have to follow some new security rules for trails opening, all the signs and opening work on trail need to be complete and they have to fill up a form that they sign and push to fcmq before activate the dozer GPS and the trails can show up open in Imotoneige. Other than that are the usuals bugs and delays that can happen with Imotoneige system and the clubs volunteers those lasts days are more on trail work than the web for sure! We were almost on dirts just a week ago and there are between 2 and 3 feets of snow to the ground right now after this second storm yesterday in my area and many others. Imotoneige picture will change a lot in the next week... I had a feeling it was something like that, i always pay attention to the imoto map to see where progress is being made and it seems this year things are bogged down for the up to date status of the clubs work, iceman seems to have a connection for emails from clubs that are very enlightening iceman and MrGutz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towing Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, BOBLER said: I had a feeling it was something like that, i always pay attention to the imoto map to see where progress is being made and it seems this year things are bogged down for the up to date status of the clubs work, iceman seems to have a connection for emails from clubs that are very enlightening Yes for a bit more up to date info most of the snowmobile clubs have their web/facebook page. For my backyard Lanaudiere/Mauricie I had helped them last season to update their clubs list that should be now good https://www.snowmobilecountry.ca/en/snowmobile-clubs/ For each club you click on you have a small facebook sign that you can click on to acces their page. It's mainly in french but with google translate you should be able to find what you are searching for to know which club maintain which trail you just have to clic Imotoneige or interactive map trail and the club info will show up Edited January 14 by towing jak, Pipeman, MrGutz and 5 others 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smclelan Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 Towing said just exactly what I expected when I saw the question. The FCMQ has always held back on posting trails open till signage is in place. I have seen this for years. A law suit that should not have gone against the club gets everyone up tight and adds new regulations. Also as Towing said, it was grass a week ago, clubs need time to set up trails. Thanks for sharing Alain. markusvt, towing and MrGutz 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 6 hours ago, smclelan said: Towing said just exactly what I expected when I saw the question. The FCMQ has always held back on posting trails open till signage is in place. I have seen this for years. A law suit that should not have gone against the club gets everyone up tight and adds new regulations. Also as Towing said, it was grass a week ago, clubs need time to set up trails. Thanks for sharing Alain. In Ontario the clubs cannot open trails until the individual clubs' trail boss signs off and sends the form in saying that all required signage is in place. As mentioned its liability protection. MrGutz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastMark Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 Bummer they need to do this…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: In Ontario the clubs cannot open trails until the individual clubs' trail boss signs off and sends the form in saying that all required signage is in place. As mentioned its liability protection. Very surprised it has taken this long for this to be implemented here in Quebec. It makes sense. I would rather they take the time and verify all is good. sad that they need to worry about being sued. Welcome to 2024. MrGutz, markusvt, Snobeeler and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signfan Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 It's a catch 22. We see the other extreme in Ontario where risk management is so intense (logs, numerous forms, training courses, etc.) it arguably takes club resources and time away from other tasks that that time could be put to. It is a sad state of affairs when volunteers have to worry about being sued just for providing a product to the genrral public. That said I can see this in some ways helping the fcmq deliver better info to riders (maybe more accurate and consistent would be a better way to put it). The trail condtion reporting on the app I find difficult to follow in Quebec. In Ontario the clubs have to report on every trail individually. You get a real picture of what is open and rideable and what isn't. It seems in Quebec the club just lists their entire trail system as open or closed. Albeit by mid season the entire trail system is open, and then the grooming updates are awesome and better then what Ontario provides. But early on having that trail by trail info on what's open is nice. Reality is not all trails open at the same time throughout a clubs boundaries. Hopefully the Quebec clubs rise to the challenge like they always do. Good news is there is plenty of experience in other jurisdictions on these legal issues for the FCMQ to learn from if they decide they need to. I just hope it doesn't hurt the quality of the product that gets put out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 We never had these problems before the app. Just saying. i miss the good old days. 1 hour ago, Signfan said: It is a sad state of affairs when volunteers have to worry about being sued just for providing a product to the genrral public. This maybe some “diplomatic immunity” is needed to protect the volunteers. Nickyskidoo and MrGutz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipeman Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 15 minutes ago, iceman said: We never had these problems before the app. Just saying. i miss the good old days. This maybe some “diplomatic immunity” is needed to protect the volunteers. This and a court system that has common sense which, of course I know is a pipe dream these days generally speaking. You are on a snowmobile. You hit a log or a stump or a water crossing on the trail and you sue. Are you shitting me? should not there be some assumed risk when doing this? MrGutz, Snobeeler, GT Rider and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 16 minutes ago, Pipeman said: This and a court system that has common sense which, of course I know is a pipe dream these days generally speaking. You are on a snowmobile. You hit a log or a stump or a water crossing on the trail and you sue. Are you shitting me? should not there be some assumed risk when doing this? Unreal it seems. But true. taken from news story may 2023 “At first, the snowmobile club denied the stump was on their trail, and also argued the plaintiff had accepted the risks inherent in a sport like snowmobiling. But the judge in the case ruled the evidence clearly showed the stump was on the trail and that it presented a hazard the club could have easily dealt with. In fact, the day after the accident, one of the police investigating the scene ordered the club to remove it – which it did immediately. NOT INHERENTLY RISKY “It was not an inherent risk of the sport of snowmobiling that caused (the) accident,” the judge wrote. “Rather, it was a tree stump that should not have been where it was because of the negligence of the club. It is useful to recall that (the plaintiff) was travelling on a well-maintained, managed trail … not in the middle of the forest, nor on some makeshift or homemade trail.” The plaintiff and six of his family members collectively sued for more than $8.4 million. Most of the claim is related to the fact he has substantial long-term physical damage and will require care for the rest of his life. For example, he often chokes when he eats, has largely lost the use of his right arm and had to learn to write with his left. He gets tired quickly, must take frequent naps, often falls, has trouble speaking, has continuous pain in his shoulders and hips, has lost many long-term memories and has very poor short-term memory. However, the judge in the case ruled the claim for 24-hour attendant care was not supported by the medical documentation, greatly reducing the value of the damage claim. In the end, the victim received $3.288 million, while his wife and family received a total of $474,000. “ NSHM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signfan Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 One of these may have made this lawsuit go in a completely different direction. It's an offroad environment. Not an engineered corridor. The club does not own that land. Do they have the right to remove the stump in question? Not a nice situation for anyone involved. http://quebecrider.com/forums/uploads/monthly_2024_01/image.thumb.png.3bec75ce8745eee77e1e0d784a6f1ca4.png BOBLER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 These are the new trail closed signs you will see here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzy Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 7 hours ago, iceman said: he often chokes when he eats, has largely lost the use of his right arm and had to learn to write with his left. He gets tired quickly, must take frequent naps, often falls, has trouble speaking, has continuous pain in his shoulders and hips, has lost many long-term memories and has very poor short-term memory. This is me after a day of riding on snowmobile trips 😜 snowmaster2112 and MrGutz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Its hindsight but a "lentement" sign up the trail 100 meters before the stump and some trail marker reflective stakes put up around it might have been enough "due diligence" until the club could get the stump out if they intended to. MrGutz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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